How to solder vertical joints

[solutions]

I use grease based traditional flux which is gentle on the pipe & lets the solder flow well. I try not to overheat the fitting - so all it needs is a rub over with a rag to remove flux when cool & perhaps a shine up with steel wool. Yes, I am old school, [emoji2] but my plumbing just is built to give no trouble.

Which flux is it you use Best? Which are grease based?

 

[Best]

Which flux is it you use Best? Which are grease based?

I use the Traditional Yorkshire Flux or the similar greased based Fluxite. I read on this forum it is like a Vaseline base. Apparently it can burn a bit if getting overheated when doing hotter work, like on lead free soldering, but I have no bother with it. Got to clean the inside of fittings & outside of pipe, unlike acid based fluxes.
I don't like Powerflux or Everflux, but have a new tub of Laco to try.
Guess I am doing if the old fashioned but proven way. I know some jobs are specified to use the traditional flux

 

[solutions]

I use the Traditional Yorkshire Flux or the similar greased based Fluxite. I read on this forum it is like a Vaseline base. Apparently it can burn a bit if getting overheated when doing hotter work, like on lead free soldering, but I have no bother with it. Got to clean the inside of fittings & outside of pipe, unlike acid based fluxes.
I don't like Powerflux or Everflux, but have a new tub of Laco to try.
Guess I am doing if the old fashioned but proven way. I know some jobs are specified to use the traditional flux

Interesting will have to give it a go.

 

[Best]

Interesting will have to give it a go.

Fluxite Tin Soldering Paste | Jewson Tools Direct

 

[jaydebruyne]

I suck at soldering I don't know where I'm going wrong.... Just tried that method in the video, first attempt only one side took completely, 2nd attempt was a lot better. Then it just all went Pete tong from there.

I hold the heat on the fitting for around 10 seconds and gently tap the solder on the joint until it melts.. I dab it on the other side so it goes all the way round. Then I solder the other side of the fitting ... And repeat.

But then I get this:

Or this:

Some of my soldering comes out great, and then some of it looks like the above.

Where am I going wrong? Could I be using too much flux?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Needs slightly more heat and a wee bit more solder

 

[jaydebruyne]

Needs slightly more heat and a wee bit more solder

More heat before I apply the solder?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

More heat before I apply the solder?

Slightly yes and a wee bit more solder your nearly there tho

 

[jaydebruyne]

Slightly yes and a wee bit more solder

I'm just paranoid of holding it there too long and burning all the flux away..

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I'm just paranoid of holding it there too long and burning all the flux away..

Tbh I've had a fitting red hot and it's been fine also if you want dip the end of your solder in the flux a bit if you think your too hot

 

[jaydebruyne]

Tbh I've had a fitting red hot and it's been fine also if you want dip the end of your solder in the flux a bit if you think your too hot

Will give it another bash tomorrow.. Its time for wine and a film about now

Cheers Sean, appreciate the help!!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Will give it another bash tomorrow.. Its time for wine and a film about now

Cheers Sean, appreciate the help!!

Np and tbh if you get a blob or run don't worrie too much as it happens and your never too far from a file or sandpaper

 

[jaydebruyne]

Np and tbh if you get a blob or run don't worrie too much as it happens and your never too far from a file or sandpaper

Okie dokes ... I've a length of 15 and 22 and a load of fittings and have rigged up a board on the back of my cupboard door with clips to solder on, I'm determined to get confident before I go back to work lol

 

[Stanios]

Id rather murder the joint with solder and flux than run risk of leaks.. Last guy I worked for was abit of perfectionist and wouldnt let me solder..would be fine but his joints leaked on half of the jobs incluidng about 4 leaks on new 28mm boiler install.
Didnt help that we only used normal propane, I since learned that Mapp is the way to go

 

[jaydebruyne]

Id rather murder the joint with solder and flux than run risk of leaks.. Last guy I worked for was abit of perfectionist and wouldnt let me solder..would be fine but his joints leaked on half of the jobs incluidng about 4 leaks on new 28mm boiler install.
Didnt help that we only used normal propane, I since learned that Mapp is the way to go

Propane is fine, its just not as hot as mapp so takes a little longer..

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Propane is fine, its just not as hot as mapp so takes a little longer..

Anything over 28 I use map

 

[jaydebruyne]

Anything over 28 I use map

Furry muff.. That's why I love this place.. Always learning!!!

 

[Best]

Propane is more than good enough for soldering most plumbing - even above 28mm.
Using a Surefire torch with propane is actually too hot. Remember it's called a brazing torch!
I spent most of my life using a standard blow lamp onto a 2 metre hose attached to a BUTANE gas bottle!!! And it was normally more than capable of doing any joint and very fast on 15 & 22mm. After all, if the solder is melting all around joint, the joint is about at its proper soldering heat. It is not a weld you are doing!
I blame bad soldering mainly on lack of training and wrong flux & its lack of use as well as overheating. Adding a dot of flux to the tip of the wire solder as you solder means the joint stays fluxed & clean & solder flows & capillarys well. You can't solder if you didn't have flux, so why expect to over heat a fitting & for a long period without adding flux constantly? Joint simply oxidises including the edge of the fitting & solder won't stick or flow right. Sometimes danger of pipes being slightly out of line due to walls out of shape if pipes are clipped etc & this can mean pipe is open fractionally more to one side of fitting. This can cause the solder to not stay to the side neatly. So try to keep pipes straight. I know my joints will not leak - ever & I just turn the water on without any worry of any leak. My choice of flux (traditional grease based) is a great flowing flux & gentle on pipe & a big advantage IMO.

 

[Stanios]

Sure If you are experienced you can probably solder with your lighter right?
If standard propane is used on big fitting and you still use same technique as for 15mm where you hold torch on one point of fitting and prod solder into one point you will end up with a leaky fitting. Whilst Mapp gas doesnt require you to be heating the fitting forever at several angles so I use Mapp.

 

[chris watkins]

Anything over 28 I use map

I just use a bigger nozzle !! As per Best post above.

To highlight just how good the resin based fluxes are I once pull out two 15mm coupling which had remained leak free with 8 floors head above for 35years, unsoldered.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Propane is more than good enough for soldering most plumbing - even above 28mm.
Using a Surefire torch with propane is actually too hot. Remember it's called a brazing torch!
I spent most of my life using a standard blow lamp onto a 2 metre hose attached to a BUTANE gas bottle!!! And it was normally more than capable of doing any joint and very fast on 15 & 22mm. After all, if the solder is melting all around joint, the joint is about at its proper soldering heat. It is not a weld you are doing!
I blame bad soldering mainly on lack of training and wrong flux & its lack of use as well as overheating. Adding a dot of flux to the tip of the wire solder as you solder means the joint stays fluxed & clean & solder flows & capillarys well. You can't solder if you didn't have flux, so why expect to over heat a fitting & for a long period without adding flux constantly? Joint simply oxidises including the edge of the fitting & solder won't stick or flow right. Sometimes danger of pipes being slightly out of line due to walls out of shape if pipes are clipped etc & this can mean pipe is open fractionally more to one side of fitting. This can cause the solder to not stay to the side neatly. So try to keep pipes straight. I know my joints will not leak - ever & I just turn the water on without any worry of any leak. My choice of flux (traditional grease based) is a great flowing flux & gentle on pipe & a big advantage IMO.

Is this the flux you're talking about best?

 

[chris watkins]

TEMPLER'S 'Telux' Solde Flux - 50g Tin, VANSO9, SO9 | The Workshop Warehouse

Or this one, they are very similar & all resin based.

 

[jaydebruyne]

TEMPLER'S 'Telux' Solde Flux - 50g Tin, VANSO9, SO9 | The Workshop Warehouse

Or this one, they are very similar & all resin based.

Can only seem to get that one online :/

 

[Best]

Is this the flux you're talking about best?

Yes, that's the Yorkshire type which is nearly identical to the Fluxite grease based.
But I wouldn't pay that price in your link! Retail price of £25! I get it for probably less than £10 for a large tin.

 

[Best]

Sure If you are experienced you can probably solder with your lighter right?
If standard propane is used on big fitting and you still use same technique as for 15mm where you hold torch on one point of fitting and prod solder into one point you will end up with a leaky fitting. Whilst Mapp gas doesnt require you to be heating the fitting forever at several angles so I use Mapp.

I disagree with just holding the torch at one point for any size of fitting with any gas. Although on 15mm it certainly will work well, if you really had to in an awkward place.
I think you should always hold the lamp alternatively at opposite two sides of the fitting, which is normally very possible- and doesn't need swinging the torch around. But if you have the space, then why not?
You only need a certain heat and butane is more than good enough for 28mm and you can use a small nozzle. Leaded solder needs less heat. Although Propane especially on a Surefire torch is a little bit quicker and great for wet pipes or in freezing conditions.
I actually think that fittings are being overheated. I challenge anyone to reduce the heat going on a fitting & back off the distance from the torch when solder can flow. It will solder very fast on 15mm up to 28mm