I really need your help, 2 zoned system

[Nailey]

Hello everybody. I am worried sick. I recently piped up 6 houses that are a 2 zoned system. 2 normal pressurised systems and 2 combo systems. I have piped a separate rad pipe for rads up and separate for rads down but i have only send one return radiator pipe round for all the radiators.

Today i have tested and fired one of the houses up and the downstairs radiators (running one zone valve) works fine. I have upstairs zone valve turned off via programmer (which controls middle floor and top floor) and the middle floor radiators are getting warm. I obviously should of sent a separate return pipe for each zone. There is no way i can run that in now though as it just wouldn't be possible. So just wondering if there is anything i can do really. I am worried sick.

Many thanks.

 

[CJL]

Hate to state something obvious but have you tried balancing the system

 

[Nailey]

I've tried everything i can think of mate

 

[buckley plumb]

Hate to state something obvious but have you tried balancing the system

balancing may work until the customer turns the trvs down then back to square one.

 

[buckley plumb]

i can't really do that buckley as then my boss would know and i would get crucified

if you are employed then your boss should have given plans or advise .ask him what he would have done .

 

[Nailey]

its the first 2 zoned system i've done but other people at the firm have run two separate returns round, i genuinely didn't think i would need to tho. i thought separate rads up and down would be fine

 

[diamondgas]

what happens if the complaint comes in when the homes are occupied? Who'll be sent to sort it out with carpets down and all the furniture in? Honestly mate if you can't sort it above floor level then IMO you'll have to come clean! Could you loose your job over this?

 

[Nailey]

i know i'm going to sort it no matter what. would these check valves definitely work?

 

[buckley plumb]

its the first 2 zoned system i've done but other people at the firm have run two separate returns round, i genuinely didn't think i would need to tho. i thought separate rads up and down would be fine

as i said there are lots who think this is ok and sometimes it can work but when i sketched it out the flow could go up to an upstairs radiator rtn pipe out on the flow through another up stairs rad then down to the common rtn . that lecturer argued with me and we agreed to disagree he even had a set up in the training room with this set up but as i pointed out all his pipes were the same length 2 rads either side of boiler so everthing was balanced perfect not possible in the real world.

 

[Nailey]

am i going to have the same problem with the combi's? i might go in saturday and sunday when the agent isn't there and cut all the floors up to run a separate return downstairs

 

[diamondgas]

am i going to have the same problem with the combi's? i might go in saturday and sunday when the agent isn't there and cut all the floors up to run a separate return downstairs

Offering free labour to rectify the problem could well save you your job ... Lesson learned Nailey. We all go through the pain barriers mate, some cost us more than others! I once crossed the gas with the heating pipes and flooded a boiler tray gas valve on a BBU. Luckely the meter hadn't been fitted!

 

[buckley plumb]

your boss may be more understanding than you think . i have always found coming clean and admitting my fault is the best way people my shout and go mad but respect you more .we are all human.

 

[CJL]

Nailey by balancing i meant governing down the lockshields it`s normal practice in larger systems i know it sounds simple but could save the costly alternatives , plenty of good suggestions but i fear another return or tees in the right place , problem being we do not know the pipework layout , i am sure we will get there , having not tackled this type of system before & not seeking enough advice it may have to be a lesson learnt what`s your timespan for rectifying things ?

 

[Nailey]

diamond do you think i will have the same problem with the combi's. I've just asked a friend, a plumber who's a lot more clued up than me and he says i will have to put non return valves on all the returns. i can put them behind the rads as the pipe comes behind the radiator and swoops to the front. that might be my best bet

 

[Nailey]

thanks CJL, i have definitely learned from this and i will not be doing this again. I am going to get it done this weekend when the agent isn't in

 

[CJL]

Nailey weve all made mistakes thats life take a good circular saw with you cut the floor up clean & square glue & sawdust at the joints if it looks tidy what can they say .

 

[Nailey]

my friend says non return valves would definitely work though. that would be a lot easier. do you think that would work CJL?

 

[Gray0689]

Can you draw a rough sketch of your pipe layout be better if we could see

 

[Nailey]

not really i don't have anything on my computer to draw on. I'm going to fit the non retune valves. thank you very much to everybody for your help

 

[CJL]

non return valves are a bit of a get out but if you test them well & make them accessable if possible , my only concern would be at a later date when they clog & block.

 

[Gray0689]

Draw a sketch and take a picture of it then post

 

[jhon lennon]

You need a return check valves will only cause secondary circulation somewhere or poor heat in certain rads

 

[dancinplumba]

have you got a 22mm return ? try creating more resistance thru rads on other zone, try turning down lockshields, water takes the path of least resistance imo

 

[diamondgas]

diamond do you think i will have the same problem with the combi's. I've just asked a friend, a plumber who's a lot more clued up than me and he says i will have to put non return valves on all the returns. i can put them behind the rads as the pipe comes behind the radiator and swoops to the front. that might be my best bet

If they are all twin zoned and piped the same way then it's most likely you're gonna have the same issues. If you're talking microbore then you'll have to check whether you can get none return valves that fit. I've only known them to go down to 15mm pipe. It will work out expensive too and mess with the ballance as they're spring loaded!! Honestly Nailey you may be better off re doing the pipework! As said, it may pay to come clean. The boss would rather the job was done right for his/her reputation and future business IMO. Yeh it may cost them/you, hopefully they're understanding enough and appreciate your honesty!