I want to get ito gas

[fuzzy]

Just out of curiosity. Does anyone know what the actual failure rate is for ACS? (Not including referrals).

Pass rate is in the high 90's. The course is not a trade course were pass and/or failure is expected. It is a training course for poeple with the relevant prior qualifications and/or people with substantial experience of the gas industry. Therefore people should not be taking the course if they are likely to fail, says what their prior learning and experience has given them!!!!

The ACS as I have said many times before on here is not for newbies but an upskill/refresher/safety cert course which isnt desinged for people to fail but to refresh their skills to carry out the job they are already doing to a safe standard

 

[smillsey]

I was pooing myself on my driving licence/motorcycle licence. ACS should be 10 times worse than that. Its not.

 

[tamz]

which isnt desinged for people to fail but to refresh their skills to carry out the job they are already doing to a safe standard

How is it possible to refresh skills you have never possessed

A pass rate still only in the high 90's. I think they need to introduce different levels to make sure everyone passes. In a few years they will no doubt introduce a foundation level for those who can find the training centre.

Maybe here lies part of the problem. If you pass (and you'd need to be exceptionally thick to fail) you may then have the false impression you know what you are doing when in fact you are a liability. You can then pay the cash, get your GS registration and unleash yourself on the unsuspecting public with a bit knowledge and very little experience. The set up, although better than nothing, is all wrong.
What was wrong with failing people in exams like they used to do. Some people really should be told to give it up and try something else.

 

[arfurdaley]

Very interesting thread. I am a career changer, having previously worked in the Electronics industry, testing and fault finding. I was made redundant and got the chance of doing an NVQ level 3 in Industrial and Commercial Gas plus my ACS for Commercial and Domestic, paid for by the dole as I was part of a large scale redundancy. I had no experience in the Gas or plumbing sector but having worked on Electronic equipment previously, I could use a multimeter and had fault finding experience. The course was a year full time with three months work placement, then you were put through your ACS.

Enjoyed the course and didn't find it too hard but to be honest I didn't have the bottle to go it alone, knew I would be out of my depth when faced with a system fault.

Anyway I struggled to get a start due to my lack of experience, but my perseverance paid off and got a start with a firm who had non-domestic maintenance contracts with a couple of local councils. I've been there nearly a year and really enjoy it, pretty varied stuff could be doing Landlords certs one day, then working on Air Handling Units or school heating systems and boilers the next.
To be honest the NVQ and ACS were good but you dont really learn about heating systems, more about the appliances, so when I first walked into a boilerhouse myself I was f'ing lost!!.
Fortunately I've got my more experienced workmates on the phone and my boss also worked on the tools for years and that is a great help when I need advice.
I never entered into the trade believing I would make £75K a year, I was just looking to learn a skill and earn a half decent wage for me and my family and after a bit of a struggle to get a start everything has worked out ok.

Hope this post is a help to anyone considering trying to work in the industry.

 

[mikegas]

yeah i dont think anybody passing their acs think they can do everything most know they are in for continuous development and training its just a way in for most people but as long as they know their limits and continue to raise them then they will be fine

 

[GQuigley67]

it depends on the individual, i'm time served as a plumber then trained in gas, i agree i made mistakes as an apprentice and learned slowly and properly, this skill allowed me to diversify into gas and oil as i had the skill set of learning behind me, when i did my gas first time i got sent on a one week training course for ACOPS, after one weeks trainign i sat and passed my gas exams, then i started on gas work, quite scary TBH, but i worked very hard and was totally comitted to expanding my skill and not injuring anyone, so to the people who join the course i run now which is 28 weeks full time for bpec, if they have the right attitude and aptitude how can we say they cant learn the basics in 6 months to ensure they are safe all the time, then they get a job and learn how to repair boilers along side basic service work, it is ridiculous to suggest a time served electronics engineer cannot learn gas, there are plentty of guys who have yrs of DIY experience who have a totally commited attitude to safety who can work through the course then go self employed and learn slowly and safely, and yes there are some who join the courses and all they want to know is how to work the system to get what they can, but i have met many many time served tradesmen in lots of different trades who have a disgraceful attitude to work and only care about what they can get, there are several Glasgow firms who i wont name here who have their gas guys doing 12+ jobs a day on a salary, but if the 12 dont get competed they lose money, this is disgraceful and i would never work there, so what does it say about the long term time served guys who do work there, and when they come in for their re-assessment tell you what they have done and earned over the yrs and it is a disgrace that they need to prove competance every 5 yrs , then when they start the assessments they havent got a scooby what they should be doing, " i never gas rate, cause i only install i dont repair", "i cant remember how to purge, it is never required where i work" "you dont need to calculate gas flow, 22mm from the meter is always enough" ok i appreciate and it is fair they need refresher training on these items and tests every 5 yrs, but i have trained a few guys on the foundation courses who are making a very good living doing gas and why shouldnt they, as i said im time served in plumbing and only did 1 week to get into gas, surely i should be banned as well, its the same with my oil, basic traing added to all my experience got me there

sorry what I mean is i think its wrong for someone to do a fast track course with no experience in plumbing or any other trade for that matter, Im a time served plumber just getting into gas so im a novice in the gas world i know that but my point was learning the skills and getting away with the mistakes as a plumbing apprentice sets u up for the gas later on as its still soldering pipe etc and you have been doing it for years not a couple of weeks, I just don't think people from any background should be able to do it but I do know time served plumbers myself that I wouldn't trust buttering my toast without supervision never mind a boiler. If they stay with a company and are kept under supervision until satisfactory then that would be fine, but not going self employed into the world working on their own with no one to correct your mistakes.

 

[fuzzy]

How is it possible to refresh skills you have never possessed

A pass rate still only in the high 90's. I think they need to introduce different levels to make sure everyone passes. In a few years they will no doubt introduce a foundation level for those who can find the training centre.

Maybe here lies part of the problem. If you pass (and you'd need to be exceptionally thick to fail) you may then have the false impression you know what you are doing when in fact you are a liability. You can then pay the cash, get your GS registration and unleash yourself on the unsuspecting public with a bit knowledge and very little experience. The set up, although better than nothing, is all wrong.
What was wrong with failing people in exams like they used to do. Some people really should be told to give it up and try something else.

should have the skills before doing the ACS, it isnt a training course, if you want to train in gas go and do the gas NVQ! or the bpec foundation, tamz you are thinking the acs is a C&G craft sert or something. Nothing wrong with people failing but this isnt the course to fail. people only pay good money if they know they have a good chance of passing, and since they are expereinced and/or qualified anyway they are not new to the industry

 

[fuzzy]

yeah i dont think anybody passing their acs think they can do everything most know they are in for continuous development and training its just a way in for most people but as long as they know their limits and continue to raise them then they will be fine

good post, thats the correct way to consdier these courses. A sensible approach to any high risk is a must

 

[tamz]

should have the skills before doing the ACS, it isnt a training course, if you want to train in gas go and do the gas NVQ! or the bpec foundation, tamz you are thinking the acs is a C&G craft sert or something. Nothing wrong with people failing but this isnt the course to fail. people only pay good money if they know they have a good chance of passing, and since they are expereinced and/or qualified anyway they are not new to the industry

I hear what you are saying Fuzzy but the likes of this does not inspire confidence
pathwaytogas.co.uk - home.index.html which is just a random site picked from a google search.
Change won't happen as the last thing they want is people thinking twice about coming through the doors with the cash.

 

[fuzzy]

good lord!!! thats a disgrace and one reason why private training providers get a bad name. It isnt designed for that type of entrant but is being used for newbies. This has only come about since the influx of private centres trying to get as much money as possible (they are a business and not blaming them as such). The system has been shortcut.

To think, these people paying all this money will not get a full qual, only a five year license!!!

 

[metaldust9]

i dont no were fast track comes from cos it took me a yr and a half to do mine,plus id already been in the trade yrs to me thats not fast track,also there,s stuff you dont need anymore cos you will never come across it, done a boiler for someone who done the gas with me and he wasnt confedent to do so that tells me lots, I DONT THINK YOU SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO GO IN AND DO GAS FROM ANOTHER JOB IE BUS DRIVER ,NURSE ETC but think the so called fast track is ok if youve been in the plumbing trade the people on my course there were a few who just didnt have it, never done plumbing so how could they do boilers ie changing y plan to a combi

 

[ViperGas]

Im 21, spent 3 years in college and I managed to get city & guilds 6129 level 2 and 3 but there technical certificates because I couldnt find a plumber to let me do my on site assessments with.
Fast track seems to be the only way to get fully qualified because im still not even there after 3 years. Finally got with a company after 7 monthes of searching when I left college and now I might just be able to finish my qualification if I can find £1000 + hehe what a tough old world.

 

[quality]

totally agree folk must possess previous experience

to gain gas as cat 2 you must have NVQ2 which can be signed off by anyone/company if your employed with them doing plumbing work

there is no set in stone requirement for levels of qualification

Anyone could employ a decent wet plumber, get them work to enable an entrant to gain his nvq 2 by signing of his work all the signatory has to have is experience

As for the assessor who passes them off, again all thats required is current qualification and an assessor qualification D32 A1 A2 easily achieved in a week

No grief intended to any but the trade is far to open in my personnel opinion

 

[BLOD]

re the pathwaytogas link, - earn £1000 to £4000 in 6 to 10 weeks ?
I agree things like this don't help at all, but unfortunately there will always be someone who believes it !

 

[billychuff]

This is one tough industry to get into. i'm being fast tracked, not by a centre, by my own boss. And i must admit it scares the pants off me. I sit my CCN1 over the next three days. Probably shouldn't say this but i think i'll pass but that will be due to the training i had at the centre, and not what i've had out in the field. How scary is that? my boss is only interested in ££££ but it's dealing with people's lives. Problem is it took me 8 months and tons of phone calls just to find someone to take me on.
Good luck to anyone who can make it

 

[fuzzy]

totally agree folk must possess previous experience

to gain gas as cat 2 you must have NVQ2 which can be signed off by anyone/company if your employed with them doing plumbing work

there is no set in stone requirement for levels of qualification

Anyone could employ a decent wet plumber, get them work to enable an entrant to gain his nvq 2 by signing of his work all the signatory has to have is experience

As for the assessor who passes them off, again all thats required is current qualification and an assessor qualification D32 A1 A2 easily achieved in a week

No grief intended to any but the trade is far to open in my personnel opinion

wouldnt say an A1 is easy achievable in a week

 

[kirkgas]

This is one tough industry to get into. i'm being fast tracked, not by a centre, by my own boss. And i must admit it scares the pants off me. I sit my CCN1 over the next three days. Probably shouldn't say this but i think i'll pass but that will be due to the training i had at the centre, and not what i've had out in the field. How scary is that? my boss is only interested in ££££ but it's dealing with people's lives. Problem is it took me 8 months and tons of phone calls just to find someone to take me on.
Good luck to anyone who can make it

send me a PM with an email address and i will send you some practice tutorials that i have made up for students

 

[tamz]

It seems as they are making it harder to get into plumbing the TC's are moving more to gas and exploiting the requirements there.

I particularly liked the bit on the above link that states
YOU WILL RECEIVE DVD'S SHOWING YOU THE GAS ENGINEER IN REAL HOMES WORKING ON REAL GAS APPLIANCES...AS IF YOU WERE RIGHT OVER HIS SHOULDER !
Wt!!!

These places won't just stop doing this because they have a conscience. It needs to be regulated against and stopped.
When gas safe took over they were allegedly going to tighten up on things.
Doing a good job on that one aren't they

 

[mikegas]

A lot is down to the training centres some will pass all comers so i think its down to gas safe to clean it up and send people back to the centres if they deem them incompetent, the centres should then have to re train and assess them free of charge, maybe that will make the centres more stringent on who who they accept on the courses and who they pass

 

[REDSAW]

my gas center say they dont care if your offering £20,000.

if you aint good enough you dont get it..

there ex b.g guys though, the problem is with 'buiseness people' smelling money. imo.

 

[mikegas]

yeah its the ones like in tamz video that is the worry

 

[kirkgas]

wouldnt say an A1 is easy achievable in a week

and i would agree, sorry nobody does A1 or V1 in a week

 

[REDSAW]

and i would agree, sorry nobody does A1 or V1 in a week

a bit new on me that one,
is it assessor and verifier, a1,v1..?.

 

[GrahamM]

I know of at least one centre that lost it's accreditation due to it's near 100% pass rate.
I also know of one guy who did not get through my training centre. He was a danger to himself and others. Last I heard Mummy paid his dues at another centre, so is only a matter of time before that Muppet is out there working on gas.

 

[moony]

This is one tough industry to get into. i'm being fast tracked, not by a centre, by my own boss. And i must admit it scares the pants off me. I sit my CCN1 over the next three days. Probably shouldn't say this but i think i'll pass but that will be due to the training i had at the centre, and not what i've had out in the field. How scary is that? my boss is only interested in ££££ but it's dealing with people's lives. Problem is it took me 8 months and tons of phone calls just to find someone to take me on.
Good luck to anyone who can make it

its a combination of both mate - youve probably learnt how to run pipework, correct clipping good installation methods and then the course brushes you up on safety aspects and formulas - i done a 3 year apprenticship and college one day a week - i think ive took a lot from all areas of the training i recieved - college was invaluable (where as a lot say they learnt very little in college) also the lad i served my first 2 years with was great - but did a lot of other types of work (kitchens, building as well as heating and bathrooms) the lad i finished my time with was more site work and breakdowns so was lucky i got into every aspect of work really - renewables ive had to learn myself as this is an area i want to expand in - hours at home reading up in magazines - on here and various books has given me a really good start to my business which is now 8 months old. Still come across something new every now and then and i will forever be learning regarding breakdowns - i have no problem with people getting fast tracked as long as its done properly - as i would be pretty bitter about going through all this in later life when someone can comeout with the same quals after just 6 weeks (i now know this to impossible after seeing so many people on here struggle to get there portfolios together and end up with only tech certs. the gas side worrys me though - as a lot seem to be getting it without the proper training.