Ideal boiler keeps clogging in new build property

[M2RTY]

Hi all - thanks for reading my problem...


We moved into a new build on 24/03/2012 which has an Ideal boiler (dont have exact model to hand) and a Megaflo CL170HE cylinder upstairs, both were installed in Jan 2012 just 2 months before we moved in.


Amongst the several plumping problems we have had, the main ones are to do with the boiler failing...


4 months after we moved in, the boiler started making loud thumping noises and then had a FL fault...site plumber came out and cleaned trap/sump out as far as I know...all worked fine after that and was told or wouldn't happen again.


Same thing happened again 12 months later in August 2013 and the plumbers came back out, trap/sump was blocked once again. They cleaned it out again for me, but a week later somehow the boiler had filled up with water which had then damaged the PCB meaning the boiler would not turn off when demand for heating/water was ended. This was replaced, cleaned out again, was told it wouldn't happen again.


Same thing has happened again 11 months later (last week), so I have powered it off for now and using the electric emergen heater for now until it is fixed....plumber came back out but as the house is now 2 years and 4 months since we moved in, they don't want to know. Said it needs a service to fix it.


It was last serviced 11 months ago and I had my own plumber fully clean the trap/sump just to be sure. This was a few weeks after it had blocked and PCB fitted. My plumber noticed the flue vent was less than 300mm from my cooker extractor fan (only 160mm) so we had to get the builder to rectify this asap to meet regulations (of which have were signed off fine when the house was complete and we bought it) - also every house on the estate has a flue less than 300mm from an opening window or cooker extractor vent!


So - i just want to know where I stand legally as the boiler should not block after 4, 12 and 11 months between times should it??? If so, then either the boiler is not fit for purpose, or has been poorly installed (i can write a book on all the plumbing problems we have had so far). Its due a service at the end of the month anyway, which I had booked it, but surely it should not happen between services?


Incidentally my neighbours have had their boilers running for 3+ years (same type) without a service and they have never blocked up yet (but have all had several plumbing issues too).



Any help appreciated on what else to check and where I legally stand

m.

 

[Aquazone]

It is likely that the sump is blocking, however you may have a restriction further down the condensate pipe work.

The service needs to clean out heat exchanger fully and washed through, so any debris is cleaned out. If there is a load of shale in heat exchanger, and plumber cleans trap, it then all drops into sump and you have issues between services as you are saying.

Maybe worth having a new sump fitted as this happened to me once on a different boiler, and the trap had not been moulded properly.

 

[plumben]

my advice would be to get a new better boiler wosterbosh Valliant, idea are not the best forever fixing them with countless faults,

 

[townfanjon]

This sounds like a condensate pipe running up hill, ie without a 'fall', its not uncommon in a newbuild these days, they seem to just chuck them in. Can you see the condensate pipe or does it disappear into the wall.
The boiler is nt old i would not change it , just sort the condensate pipe and fingers crossed it will be ok.

 

[Ermintrude]

my advice would be to get a new better boiler wosterbosh Valliant, idea are not the best forever fixing them with countless faults,

Don't listen to this mug! Ideal logics are very good boilers, sounds like the builder has filled boiler flue or boiler with construction debris. We fited a few THOUSAND of these and have few % failure . I wouldn't wish a Worcester on any one. Their system and combi boilers are utter plastic tat. The only decent one is the heat only classic.

Get ideal out to look at it. I can 150% guarantee it's down to installer error.

The pcb probably got wet when conny wasn't properly re assembled . House builders employ some of the lowest skilled least attentive price hungry boiler mongers ever. House builders are only rivalled by greendeal and ega lads.

(Sorry - obviously some good eggs )

 

[Whyme]

I'm with aquazone on the heat exchanger cleaned properly on next service bit, Not sure about that boiler but a lot need new seals when putting back together so may bump the bill a touch.

 

[gasmanrob]

I'm with the trude on this one.

worster are for fools that can't spec a system for them selves or are blinded by worst ew's sales patter. Mid range boiler at best but with a premier price tag.

the ideal logic was actually designed by former vaillant designers. And ideal were that confident in it they were one of if not the first manufacturer to place a 7 year warranty on a boiler!

Ideals of old yes there were some truly unreliable units. But the logic is a good unit!

As as suggested the heat exchanger really needs a flush through this should be carried out during an annual service. It won't take long if done properly.

 

[townfanjon]

Icos ???

 

[plumben]

Don't listen to this mug! Ideal logics are very good boilers, sounds like the builder has filled boiler flue or boiler with construction debris. We fited a few THOUSAND of these and have few % failure . I wouldn't wish a Worcester on any one. Their system and combi boilers are utter plastic tat. The only decent one is the heat only classic.

Get ideal out to look at it. I can 150% guarantee it's down to installer error.

The pcb probably got wet when conny wasn't properly re assembled . House builders employ some of the lowest skilled least attentive price hungry boiler mongers ever. House builders are only rivalled by greendeal and ega lads.

(Sorry - obviously some good eggs )

I'll agree that the logics are a good boiler but I guess its just my bias view pushed onto me by my boss, never fitted one but countless repairs

 

[M2RTY]

Wow cheers guys what a bunch of replies! Thanks

i have had the trap cleaned out today and got a thimble full of grey sand like matter

refitted it and its working quieter than ever in the past few months!

i've noticed its now dropping through the pipe next to the cylinder - wonder if it has been doing it for a while (pressure ok, boiler only ever on when in asleep) - thats the next challenge

its a he15 by the way, I'll try and check the fall of the pipes but they all seem to go behind the wall - any way to check easily?

could the crap be falling down the flue?

its getting serviced on Tuesday now, just to make sure the rest of the inside is clean - but at least I have gas hot water over the weekend

cheers again all

 

[Ermintrude]

I'll agree that the logics are a good boiler but I guess its just my bias view pushed onto me by my boss, never fitted one but countless repairs

What on logics?

 

[M2RTY]

Hi all

boiler serviced and fully cleaned 2 weeks ago

worked fine since then

but, now doing the same again

gone back to builder/plumber who installed it and said they ever fix it or I'm speaking to the NHBC to lodge a complaint as the fault pre exists the 2 year warranty so is their responsibility to fix still

cheers

 

[AWheating]

What boiler is it, an ideal icos? an ideal logic? post a picture.

maybe the flue is full of debris, take a look down the flue with the boiler turned off.

The general public think they are getting a good house when they buy new build. In reality most new builds are terrible quality and built by tradesmen that are on the lowest wages working 5 times faster than they should do meaning every thing is done to cut corners. Never ever buy the shower house, it will be held together by paint.

Im currently working on new build and every day im shocked by what i see. Ive been on several sites the last few months and not one has the gas pipework done correctly. New builds are sold on the finished look theres cancer behind the makeup.

 

[M2RTY]

Its an ideal he15


2 weeks after being cleaned it blocked again, I have spokento the house builders who have denied responsibility and they passed me to thecompany that fitted it

Company that fit it say “because I got it serviced after 15months and not 12 then it invalidates the 2 year warranty” – which I find hardto belive…..and IF true, the reason it took 15 months was because THEY fittedthe flue too close to the cooker vent outside and no plumber would touchit. When I mentioned this, they said theboiler was put in correctly but the cooker vent was installed wrong. I don’t belive this as the houses opposite mehave windows less than 300mm away from the flue, and the windows would havebeen installed before the boiler!

But besides this, they have arranged an engineer to visit myboiler today as its been off a week now, and I don’t see why I should be payingagain to get it fixed and if they cant get it resolved or it fails again Ishall be speaking to the NHSC

To recap, in 2.5 years it had:
New pump and new PCB in first year
Cleaned out 5 or 6 times from 4 months old to 2.5 years old
External flue moved as too close to cooker vent (half the300mm min distance)
Radiator replaced as it was half the size it should be
Both showers fixed as the thermostat cartridges were wrong?
Leaks from both bathrooms through ceiling

cheers all

 

[oz-plumber]

Can't you call the manufacturer of the boiler and get them to service the boiler and write a report on the install.

You sound like you are going to go legal and fight the builder / plumber regarding your situation.

The best way to strengthen your case against them is to have a report on the boiler written on a letterhead from the boiler manufacturer.
If you can get proof from the manufacturer that there is an installation fault, that's the best you can achieve in a legal sense.

Good luck with everything

 

[M2RTY]

Update - 08/10/2014

boiler has worked ok for the past month

however, yesterday I was greated with a £98 bill from the site plumber!!!! The builder had aranged for the plumber to inspect the boiler after I had yet again complained, and at no point was I told I would have to pay!! I have emailed the builder who has once again fobbed me off saying to take it up with the plumber direct. So I have emailed the plumber and am awaiting a reply. £98 to clean a trap on a boiler that had been serviced 2 weeks earlier?? It only cost me £45 for the service and clean!! Absolutly fuming as this all originated from what I still beleive is a poor installation of the boiler by the plumber

 

[M2RTY]

Ps - can anyone answer me this?

can someone please explain how all the houses on my estate have flues less than 300mm away from opening windows on the external walls? Shouldn't this have been picked up on at the time they got signed off?

ours was less than 300mm from cooker vent, so they moved the vent across a brick, and denied they were at fault as they said the boiler was installed before the cookers went in. But the boilers wouldn't have been installed before the brickies made the holes for the windows?

 

[stevetheplumber]

has flue got a plume fit fitted ?if so its probably ok at 150

 

[AWheating]

Ps - can anyone answer me this?

can someone please explain how all the houses on my estate have flues less than 300mm away from opening windows on the external walls? Shouldn't this have been picked up on at the time they got signed off?

ours was less than 300mm from cooker vent, so they moved the vent across a brick, and denied they were at fault as they said the boiler was installed before the cookers went in. But the boilers wouldn't have been installed before the brickies made the holes for the windows?

point these issues out to nhbc and tell them your interviewing with local newspaper and they said they will want a quote from the nhbc about the problems and poor service.

 

[Aquazone]

As someone has already suggested, get the manufacturer involved first. They will do a thorough service. Tell them of the issues you have had and ask them for a report. The site plumber is no good, as he wont tell you of any installation defects.

 

[oz-plumber]

Ps - can anyone answer me this?

can someone please explain how all the houses on my estate have flues less than 300mm away from opening windows on the external walls? Shouldn't this have been picked up on at the time they got signed off?

ours was less than 300mm from cooker vent, so they moved the vent across a brick, and denied they were at fault as they said the boiler was installed before the cookers went in. But the boilers wouldn't have been installed before the brickies made the holes for the windows?

Hi M2ARTY,

You are not going to resolve any of your issues with postings on this site.
Your situation seems to be an installation fault.
The only way you are going to get a firm resolution to your problem is to get the manufacturers of the boiler, or a representative of the boiler manufacturer, to give you a report on your installation.

If the MI haven't been followed, then you will not have any warranty on your boiler and when it comes time to change the boiler you will be up for big bucks for a competent installer to make it comply with regulations.

 

[M2RTY]

25/10/2014 update

For anyone interested, I am once again having the same issues with the PCB

Boiler WONT power off so I have started legal proceeding....cheers

 

[dave1]

Can you post some pictures up of the installation and neighbours flues?

 

[Ollieg]

Bet its a 2 port not pcb fault.

 

[M2RTY]

Bet its a 2 port not pcb fault.

whats the 2 port matey? The PCB was replaced last time. Assumed same fault


yes I can get photos

also, the boiler has a manufacture date of 26/03/2008 and was benchmarked on 30/01/2012. Would this concern you? Ideal said max 12 months between these dates!!!!!