Intergas boiler thoughts

[Millsy 82]

I fully agree with you. Otherwise all the other manufacturers would be doing exactly the same.

Isn't it better a relatively cheap plate catches dirt or blocks up with scale otherwise where is it going to end up. I know I would rather replace the plate than the main heat exchanger.

It would be nice to know which is more efficient.

 

[Gasnoob]

Isn't the unique feature of the intergas heat exchanger that water never comes into contact with the aluminium?

 

[Riley]

But again it’s a gimmick. It’s not really a deal breaker for 98% of customers

 

[Gasnoob]

Copper is going to last. Aluminium won't?

 

[Aire]

Copper is going to last. Aluminium won't?

Aluminium will last, so long as the quality of the water in the system is maintained. Also alot of manufacturers now are using stainless steel heat ex's.

 

[Gasnoob]

One thing that worries me about Intergas boilers is the spares. A pcb board £400. You may aswell scrap the boiler. Given the Rapid 32 only has a 3 year warranty. However 13.2l/m flow for £700 what other boiler can offer that?

 

[Riley]

Not to mention part availability which is dire

 

[Jerry]

I love and fit Intergas.
However, I would only ever fit their Combi boilers and then only the EcoRF with the 10 year warranty.
For other types of boiler (system and heat only), i would always go for the longest warranty for the cheapest price.

 

[Justice League]

EcoRF with an annual service by Intergas or an Intergas approved installer is about £70-90 from googling.

So that's not bad for 10 years of peace of mind? Just pay for the annual service.

 

[Mastermixlee]

Plate heat exchangers block alot on the ch side, but also (area and water quality dependant) block from scale build up on the mains side.
Typically the supplies for Boilers (filling loop thereafter) are piped bypassing any ion exchange type water softeners due to aluminium heat exchangers rotting through and leaking through the use of softened water.

So the intergas approach is perfect for those in hard water areas where a water softener is installed as the supply to the boiler (including filling loop) can be fitted with no concerns about the water coming into contact with the aluminium.

Stainless heat exchanger obviously avoids this problem too, which there are plenty to choose from (at least in combi range... Seems to be quite a few less on heat only for some odd reason).

If you've got a knowledgeable installer who is very familiar with intergas and the use of opentherm with it then I think it's a great option personally.

Baxi 600 combi range is also good and value for money (brass, stainless steel and copper being primary materials), the heat only range on the other hand isn't as good in my view. Wish they'd make the heat only range identical to the combi just with blanking plates on diverter valve and plate heat exchanger point like glowworm used.

 

[Millsy 82]

I can imagine Robin reliant making a huge comeback I can just see their advertising campaign

ONLY 3 WHEELS FOR IMPROVED RELIABILITY

 

[Jerry]

I can imagine Robin reliant making a huge comeback I can just see their advertising campaign

ONLY 3 WHEELS FOR IMPROVED RELIABILITY

Unicycle

Reductio ad absurdum

or

“Perfection is achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away” – Antoine de Saint-Exupery

 

[Mastermixlee]

Just coz the big name manufacturers aren't doing similar design doesn't mean it's not a good one or it doesn't make more sense.

Worcester made/make Boilers with prv's at the back and plastic manifolds that pinhole and leak.
Used poor seals around ignition electrodes which resulted in a many Boilers catching fire and only replaced on an inspection basis rather than a recall (RD type Boilers).



Vaillant made rubber hoses that often burst or block causing major property damage.
G10 seal anyone?

Point being big brand manufacturers are messing up regularly on different aspects of their boiler design.

If the only negative point that can be made on a design is that "others aren't doing it" I'd say that's pretty good going.

Time is ultimately the teller of all things in cases like these.

But I'd rather have an intergas than a greenstar, ideal logic or glowworm energy etc.

 

[Millsy 82]

Just coz the big name manufacturers aren't doing similar design doesn't mean it's not a good one or it doesn't make more sense.

Worcester made/make Boilers with prv's at the back and plastic manifolds that pinhole and leak.
Used poor seals around ignition electrodes which resulted in a many Boilers catching fire and only replaced on an inspection basis rather than a recall (RD type Boilers).



Vaillant made rubber hoses that often burst or block causing major property damage.
G10 seal anyone?

Point being big brand manufacturers are messing up regularly on different aspects of their boiler design.

If the only negative point that can be made on a design is that "others aren't doing it" I'd say that's pretty good going.

Time is ultimately the teller of all things in cases like these.

But I'd rather have an intergas than a greenstar, ideal logic or glowworm energy etc.

Today I worked on a Worcester 28i junior about 15-16 years old so pre greenstar. Worcester did what intergas have years ago there must be a reason why they dont now.

My only thought is maybe a plate transfers the heat better making the boiler slightly more efficient but basically the reason I take the mick is because intergas have taken an old design and made it sound like the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

They all have there good and bad points but I find what normally does a boiler in is either install or just age / cost of repair parts

 

[Mastermixlee]

Today I worked on a Worcester 28i junior about 15-16 years old so pre greenstar. Worcester did what intergas have years ago there must be a reason why they dont now.

My only thought is maybe a plate transfers the heat better making the boiler slightly more efficient but basically the reason I take the mick is because intergas have taken an old design and made it sound like the best thing since sliced bread.

I get that point definitely.

But the fact that the intergas seem to offer higher efficiency for hot water demand than the Worcester do definitely opens the question over what's more efficient.

And with the flow rates (with same temperature rise target) being often specced higher then that in itself should speak for efficiency. As if it was less efficient then the flow rate would be less not more.

Im always up for new (whether that be entirely new or an adaptation of an older setup) designs to hit the market as I enjoy learning how they work and seeing their advantages and downfalls.

But i suppose intergas have attempted marketing at general public with this kind of message as they think it may be more effective than attempting to market to us stubborn engineers who are reluctant to change lol

 

[Jerry]

I was under the impression that Intergas has patented their design and no one else can use it

 

[Millsy 82]

I am very stubborn I will admit that.

If it was up to me everybody would still be having ideal Mexico 2 installed.

I'm not a big believer in all the facts and figures alot of these manufacturers spew out. I know it's a different trade altogether but look at VW. Big businesses can afford to get away with big lies.

I mainly go now with the whole package boiler, aftercare, price, spares etc etc I think ifbi was going for outright best boiler I think at the moment I would be looking viessman but I just cant justify the price of them.

 

[Stan]

Have to say the above was pretty interesting with some honest exchanges.

I'm still looking and learning and trying to get a feel with what to exchange my old gravity fed Ideal Classic heat only in the garage (when it finally achieves the point of unpractical repair). Have decided against a straight, one for one, swap in the garage and now favour the airing cupbard.

Trouble is I have such a wide choice .... there's now a new 28mm gas supply to the airing cupboard (3metres of 28mm copper behind the rainwater downpipe & 10 metres of 28mm tracpipe run via the loftspace) - and a new unrestricted dedicated 22mm cold water supply direct from the 25mm blue MDPE to the airing cupboard - with a couple of easy(ish) flue options too (via the loft space - either straight up throught the roof tiles or elbowed out to nearby gable wall). Plus an easy, short route for the condensate to the Soil and Vent.

There's 4 bar static (and respectable dynamic pressure) with 30 litres per minute flow through the new 22mm water supply which will be exclusive for the boiler. Or, instead, it could be used to supply an unvented cylinder in the airing cupboard with a small new boiler above it.

One bathroom with shower above, used daily by wife and I - plus an en-suite rarely used.

What I'm most concerned about is whether opening a tap or toilet cistern will affect the shower flow unduly (Mira Excel thermostatic mixer). I would insist on a 35kw combi as a minimum (Intergas Extreme or Exclusive or possibly Eco RF or maybe Vaillant 838 etc. But have no personal long term experience with either a decent, new, powerful combi nor an unvented cylinder system. But I do know I recently visited two newish Megaflo systems and it seemed to takes ages for the DHW to arrive at the (reasonably nearby) kitchen taps .... was surprised and disappointed.

If Intergas, the installers are few and far between - if Vaillant there's no shortage of local Appoved installers - that could substantially influence the choice.

Will keep on listening to others and try to form a sensible view.

 

[centralheatking]

Intergas is a bit like marmite , love them, never tried, or hate them. We have one for 3 years, my next house after this one will certainly have the suitable model.
Yes I have tried Marmite and I love it ....centralheatking
There is lots of sense in keeping your old boiler parts are easy cheap and re con parts as well
modern boilers are often like thorough bred horses pulling carts too much hassle chking

 

[Stan]

I did ring them to (politely) ask why they only offered a 7 yr warranty on the Extreme given it was dearer than the Exclusive - and didn't get an answer other than the fact that that was what they offered .. and didn't foresee any changes in the future. Having said that the reply was as helpful as the fella could offer.

 

[Mcalm01]

I did ring them to (politely) ask why they only offered a 7 yr warranty on the Extreme given it was dearer than the Exclusive - and didn't get an answer other than the fact that that was what they offered .. and didn't foresee any changes in the future. Having said that the reply was as helpful as the fella could offer.

Hi Stan,

Hope you are keeping well I know this is an old thread but I came across your very interesting posts about deciding whether to go with Intergas or Ideal/Glow warm boiler.

Curious to find out if you did throw in the towel and get the Intergas boiler installed or stuck with Ideal or Glow-warm?

Would love to hear from you.

Cheers,
M

 

[Stan]

Apologies .... haven't logged in for ages.

If there had been a glaringly obvious choice of "Heat Only" boiler of approx 15kw - 18kw that I could have had fitted knowing it was undoubtedly the right choice then I'd have gone ahead at the time.

However I looked long and hard at (what I considered to be) the obvious choices ( Worcester, Vaillant, Ideal, Baxi, Gloworm, Intergas, Viessman) and concuded that whoever had an opinion on each of them mostly hated them or loved them for any one of a dozen reasons .... and so I deferred the decision hoping something would make my mind up (and, yes, I plead guilty to over-thinking the whole thing but a leopard can't change it's spots).

Regarding Intergas, I was worried about parts availability, infamiliarity on behalf of any prospective installer and/or maintenance guy (there were no local people round this way ) and was fearful being stuck without a part or someone to diagnose and fit it.

Obviously Ideal and Baxi are plentiful with plenty local bods who must know them but people here and elsewhere made them sound like the poor relation ...

..... which leaves the three posh makes - no-one locally seemed to deal in Viessman, and the general concensus on Vaillant and Worcester was so variable with lots of opinion suggesting both used to be a lot better than there are now - etc etc etc.

Like I say, no one manufacturer stood out as being the one to go for, so I simply left it, and Covid arrived and in that time the existing 26 year old Ideal Classic boiler with a cast iron HEX carried on carrying on.

I had a bloke come round yesterday who stuck his gas analyser up the flue and approved of the result and that's where we are today.

In the meantime I've had a change of plan regarding where a replacement would go - a replacement would now stay in the garage but go closer to the house to reduce the runs and it would now have a top mounted flue not a rear flue and would pass through a conventional concrete tiled roof ... all quite handy and accessible. I've provided a new 28mm gas supply in case I or anyone else wanted to go combi in the future (it wasn't unduly difficult - used tracpipe -and I was in the mood for it at the time (it was finalised and connected by a Gas Safe fitter). And so, to conclude, a new boiler could go in there quite easily at any time but the old Ideal keeps going without missing a beat, and the system water is crystal clear (inhibitor and magnetic filter) and I guess I'll just fit whatever the chosen installer fancies fitting, coz I'v no longer got a clue which is the sensible choice.

With further apologies for boring the arse off you lot.