Is there a stand alone multiroom controller for wireless TRVs?

[bureaucrazy]

Hi, can anyone recommend a controller for wireless TRVs that can set on off time for individual TRV using a phsical control panel with it's own interface/screen that does not need a smartphone app to work and can be used stand alone?

 

[Basher]

Honeywell Home Evohome. Not cheap but excellent.
Just for rads, or hot water control as well.
Can independently set each individual room temperature - each TRV monitors temp, reports it and controller adjusts it to achieve set temp.
Control panel shows tiles giving each rooms info - set point, actual, if timed, etc.
Don't have to use phone/ internet etc.
Your settings all reside in the control unit, and don't rely on an internet connection to run.

Honeywell Home Evohome HR91 Starter Kit

Honeywell Home Evohome HR91 Starter Kit | Buy Honeywell Home evohome From The EVOHOME Specialists | Order Weekdays Before 4pm For Same Day Dispatch

thesmartthermostatshop.co.uk

 

[Ollie Cox]

We've got a Honeywell Evohome - it was the only standalone controller we could find. It's pretty good but takes some setting up and adjusting. The technical support is a bit up and down. Most plumbers and central heating engineers seem clueless about it. For our old Georgian 3 storey townhouse it was the only sensible solution. And once you've got your head around it it's very clever and economical.

 

[Basher]

I've never tried support from Honeywell directly, but Resideo Product Support Centre | Resideo UK - https://www.resideo.com/gb/en/support/
have a lot of information on-line, and there's a forum that invariably can help solve any problems.

Honeywell evohome and Honeywell Connected Thermostat FAQ's! - The Efficient Home Forum

 

[bureaucrazy]

Thanks. The honeywell one seems to be the only one that works stand alone and it looks like a good product and I have seen it from only £150 for the controller.

However, the only problem is that the TRV's seem to have a manual override which defeats the point.

I want to be able to keep the heating off in particular rooms at particular times. Override means the person in the room can keep switching it on when I want it off.

 

[Ollie Cox]

I'm pretty sure you can disable the manual override on any particular radiator controller from the central controller. I think it's referred to as a "child-lock" of something like that. I've never used it but seem to remember being asked whether I want to "disable local override" as you program each room.

There may be a difference between to fancier HR91 radiator controller and the simpler HR92 ones.

 

[Basher]

However, the only problem is that the TRV's seem to have a manual override which defeats the point.

As per Ollie above, There's a child lock to disable the buttons on the HR91, accessed from the controller only. I've never had cause to use it!

Of course a cold occupant of the room could always unscrew a TRV if they knew what to do (whether you have a Honeywell one or any other), though you might be able to defeat that option with a diy modification!

 

[bureaucrazy]

Yes. You are correct. The individual valves can be locked after all.
Yes they might take it off the rad if cold, or worse still, use electric heater!

After doing more research, it seems the Evohome is the perfect solution. However, the cost is about £300 to £400 and the savings might not be as much as I first thought.

I am finding that energy consumption of GCH is not as simple as with electric heaters. Switching off half the radiators will still use much more than half the gas because the cold rooms will draw heat out. As I am learning, the second issue is, say only one radiator is open, the boiler is too powerful and will start and stop and not work efficiently unless there are enough rads open to run constantly and with enough heat drop to condense.

I might have to compromise granularity of control for the boiler to run efficiently and without getting worn out by too much on off.

With all that, I might only save £80 per year best case with Evohome versus the whole house timer thermostat as there is a lot of overlap during room occupied times.

I have found there are valves with buttons on that can be set with 2 high and 2 low periods per day for less than £10 each. With the basic timer thermostat, I can also turn the system off, so have 3 settings (hi,lo,off). Taking into account I will need to have more rads open than I want to keep the boiler efficient, these individual trvs will still probably save £50 per year compared with about £80 with the honeywell and it is not worth an extra £350 to save an extra £20 or £30 per year.

I will keep an eye out for a second hand evohome as it might be worth it for the convenience of being able to instantly change each rad from armchair.

I think a few manual timer trvs will do well enough and I can fit and forget and not waste hours fiddling with the control panel.

What do others here think? Does a fancy system like Evohome cost more than it saves for a small house?

Any tips for planning which rooms are on/off to help the boiler work more efficiently with less wear?

 

[_jjjjj]

I’ll share my experience, which may be of interest.

Nearly 4 years ago we moved home into a three-storey house which had a traditional GCH system with manual TRVs and single hard wired room stat. positioned on the top floor landing. It worked but it was guess work trying to set the stat. to achieve a comfortable temp in the living room. Also, it was wasteful most of the time as it was heating rooms that were not in use.

After considering various options I concluding that replacing the manual TRVs with smart TRVs was the way to go. I also didn’t want a solution that depended upon an internet connection and cloud services to work, and didn’t use wifi to communicate (which needs more power and shorter range than alternatives) with the components (TRV heads, thermostats etc.) which eliminated just about every option except Honeywell EvoHome.

I then costed up replacing every TRV (14 in total) and the controller that connects to the boiler. The total was the thick end of £2K, way too much to be worthwhile so put the project on hold.

Then I came across the WundaSmart system (I think wunda are better known in the underfloor heating sector) and bought their starter kit (the hub, two thermostats, one TRV head) which was on a special deal and couple of second-hand TRV heads.

In total I’ve replaced only 5 smart TRV heads in the rooms that I want full control of, the remaining manual TRVs on landings, the hall and bathroom are set to a “keep it warm enough” setting. Having a room thermostat is optional as the system falls back to using the TRV reading – I’ve only installed one in the living room where there are two radiators.

The key point is that you don't need to replace every TRV head - start small and work up until you reach the level of control you need plus there is a lot to learn on the way.

I found installing fewer smart TRV heads still provides me with sufficient level of control without spending a fortune that I can’t justify. It also avoids the short cycling of the boiler problem which I wasn’t aware of until recently. Support from Wunda (UK based) has been excellent too when I’ve needed it.

Since installing it I’ve integrated it into the Home Assistant set up I run too, which opens up all sorts of alternative options to monitor and control. This isn’t turnkey stuff but very powerful.

One characteristic to be aware of and that some might find an issue is the noise the TRV heads generate when changing position. Whilst the motor in the head is near silent, the pipework/radiator does seem to amplify the noise somewhat. It doesn’t both us as it only lasts a few seconds.

Hope that it is some use.

J

 

[Ollie Cox]

We looked at Wunda as well as Evohome. The Wunda system doesn't rely on the internet, which is good, but as far as we could see you still needed a Smartphone to control it sensibly. That was one of the reasons we went the Evohome route.

The original poster was also looking for something that was stand alone and didn't need a smartphone to operate.

Our daughter rents a house that has Wunda Thermostats in each room controlling a mix of underfloor heating and ordinary radiators. They are linked to an air source heat pump. They had no end of problems trying to get it all to run reliably. It all sounded much more complicated in the end than the Evohome system.

For our tall Georgian Townhouse our energy bills have certainly gone down since installing the Evohome. But I've not had time to do a thorough analysis.

Hope some of that helps your decision process. I think I would be wary of getting a second hand controller. And would certainly avoid second hand radiator controllers.