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Actually no but live in The Netherlands most of the year,So know many installers,repair technicians and heating retailers.
Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
Discuss I've settled on an Intergas boiler. in the Boilers area at Plumbers Forums
Firstly - thanks muchly for the replies to date. All have been inwardly digested and are appreciated.
Also - I am happy to admit when I'm wrong and I don't profess to know it all, coz I don't. And I know I'm often guilty of over-thinking things and this topic is just another one of them.
But Larry Legroom's post, above, has finally clicked a light-switch for me.
I didn't know about the take0ver by Rheem’s Global Water Division on 31st May 2019. But it has made me question whether I can be confident that if I fit something by Intergas, will they still be there, in the UK, to support my boiler in coming years (or months even?).
There are lots of things I like about Intergas :- I like the apparent simplicity and ease of access to the boiler's components. I like the large bore waterways in th HEX. I like the way the Tech. fella at their Head Office was easy to talk to and he offered pre-purchase info. very readily without any stuffy officialdom. I obviously don't know, in practice and at first hand, about spares and back-up in 2019. They may well be absolutely fine. Callout response times are something I read about and gather WB are (or were) good and the others might be good or might be variable - but I obviously don't know from experience.
Additonally, as stated, I fancied fitting a combi and initially using it as an OV or, possibly, a System boiler with the ability of being able to use it in full combi mode if I did away with the cylinder at some point in the future.
I think I was wrong on that point, mainly coz a combi wouldn't be entirely suitable here, primarily due to long pipe runs from the boiler (in the attached garage). My cylinder is pretty central to the taps and showers.
In summary then, I've gone back to the prospect of sticking to either a plain old Open Vent boiler (which, of course, I can easily convert to run as a System boiler later if I decided to) - or to bite the bullet and fit a Sytem boiler at the outset. We've covered that earlier and it's only the possibility of a leak due to pressurising the system that causes doubts
But no combi.
Regarding which OV (or System) boiler - I guess we're back to the likes of Ideal Logic + Max or Glow-worm Energy (similar to the Vaillant Ecofit Pure?) in the appropriate size (the current boiler is 50.000 btu/h and my Mears Calculator suggests a total of 16kw - so either the 15 or the 18 versions of either make presumably?).
I won't go down the Viessman route, much as I like the idea of a stainless HEX - I think I'd be opening another can of worms.
Sorry for long post.
And further thanks.
Also - I am happy to admit when I'm wrong and I don't profess to know it all, coz I don't. And I know I'm often guilty of over-thinking things and this topic is just another one of them.
But Larry Legroom's post, above, has finally clicked a light-switch for me.
I didn't know about the take0ver by Rheem’s Global Water Division on 31st May 2019. But it has made me question whether I can be confident that if I fit something by Intergas, will they still be there, in the UK, to support my boiler in coming years (or months even?).
There are lots of things I like about Intergas :- I like the apparent simplicity and ease of access to the boiler's components. I like the large bore waterways in th HEX. I like the way the Tech. fella at their Head Office was easy to talk to and he offered pre-purchase info. very readily without any stuffy officialdom. I obviously don't know, in practice and at first hand, about spares and back-up in 2019. They may well be absolutely fine. Callout response times are something I read about and gather WB are (or were) good and the others might be good or might be variable - but I obviously don't know from experience.
Additonally, as stated, I fancied fitting a combi and initially using it as an OV or, possibly, a System boiler with the ability of being able to use it in full combi mode if I did away with the cylinder at some point in the future.
I think I was wrong on that point, mainly coz a combi wouldn't be entirely suitable here, primarily due to long pipe runs from the boiler (in the attached garage). My cylinder is pretty central to the taps and showers.
In summary then, I've gone back to the prospect of sticking to either a plain old Open Vent boiler (which, of course, I can easily convert to run as a System boiler later if I decided to) - or to bite the bullet and fit a Sytem boiler at the outset. We've covered that earlier and it's only the possibility of a leak due to pressurising the system that causes doubts
But no combi.
Regarding which OV (or System) boiler - I guess we're back to the likes of Ideal Logic + Max or Glow-worm Energy (similar to the Vaillant Ecofit Pure?) in the appropriate size (the current boiler is 50.000 btu/h and my Mears Calculator suggests a total of 16kw - so either the 15 or the 18 versions of either make presumably?).
I won't go down the Viessman route, much as I like the idea of a stainless HEX - I think I'd be opening another can of worms.
Sorry for long post.
And further thanks.
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- 6,156
Hard to who knows owns what these days Stan, being in a garage I would go for a boiler pre insulated inside the casing another thing for you to consider ? Just serviced a HRE 36 combi I fitted a year ago and that is insulated . Kop
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I still really don’t understand your aversion to sealing your system when so many professionals have told you it should be fine. Likewise if you really were thinking about the Combi then you could use a combi to do the some taps and using the Boiler to still heat a hot water cylinder still the options are there as I think loads of people said I really think you just need to talk to some other installers don’t just limit yourself to your mate
Thanks, and, no, Riley, I realise you don't get why I have expressed reservations. And, of course, I hear what you, and others, say and I accept why you say it. But we both know that there are bods who get customers to sign a proviso that if a newly pressurised system does happen to leak they (the installer) has pre-warned them and won't be held responsible.
However, I might, just possibly,
, have inferred that, following the advice received, I'm coming round to the idea of pressurising it.
Hopefully there's no harm in exploring and considering the pros and cons and this is, with assistance of yourself and fellow members, is what I've done and appreciate the progress we're making. It's not an urgent matter insofar as the boiler still works, hence I can deliberate without being under pressure and the forum is a helpful place to air the options.
Yes, I was hooked on the idea of a combi for the reasons given. But, also for the subsequent reasons given, which include the impractically long hot water delivery pipe run to distant taps, I think I was wrong and I have returned to keeping the cylinder and three way valve etc (which are physically very accessible and have served our usage patterns well to date).
Also I just feel the simplicity of an OV (or System boiler) appeals to me. The Intergas has (had) much going fo it in my eyes but, we've been there and done that for the foreseeable future.
Yes, indeed, there will be benefit in getting other installers in. As I said I had one firm to quote, but at that time I also contacted two others, one of whom never bothered to come back to make an appointment after we spoke briefly on the phone - and the other one didn't reply after I left a message on their answerphone, and if I have a tame plumber/installer who I have known for 15 years and who pops round at the drop of a hat to fix anything that needs fixing - then it would be a bit of an embarrassment and a cause of awkwardness to get another installer in to do a similar job.
All the time you and/or others are happy to mull the matter over here, then I'm very happy to chew the fat and explore possibilities and appreciate the benefit of your experience, but if you decide the topic has run it's course then obviously you'll say so and call it a day
Ta muchly.
However, I might, just possibly,
, have inferred that, following the advice received, I'm coming round to the idea of pressurising it.Hopefully there's no harm in exploring and considering the pros and cons and this is, with assistance of yourself and fellow members, is what I've done and appreciate the progress we're making. It's not an urgent matter insofar as the boiler still works, hence I can deliberate without being under pressure and the forum is a helpful place to air the options.
Yes, I was hooked on the idea of a combi for the reasons given. But, also for the subsequent reasons given, which include the impractically long hot water delivery pipe run to distant taps, I think I was wrong and I have returned to keeping the cylinder and three way valve etc (which are physically very accessible and have served our usage patterns well to date).
Also I just feel the simplicity of an OV (or System boiler) appeals to me. The Intergas has (had) much going fo it in my eyes but, we've been there and done that for the foreseeable future.
Yes, indeed, there will be benefit in getting other installers in. As I said I had one firm to quote, but at that time I also contacted two others, one of whom never bothered to come back to make an appointment after we spoke briefly on the phone - and the other one didn't reply after I left a message on their answerphone, and if I have a tame plumber/installer who I have known for 15 years and who pops round at the drop of a hat to fix anything that needs fixing - then it would be a bit of an embarrassment and a cause of awkwardness to get another installer in to do a similar job.
All the time you and/or others are happy to mull the matter over here, then I'm very happy to chew the fat and explore possibilities and appreciate the benefit of your experience, but if you decide the topic has run it's course then obviously you'll say so and call it a day
Ta muchly.
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Something else maybe worth mentioning in the event of you retaining your Open Vent system. Its very important that the circ pump matches very closely the pumping characteristics of your present Grundfos pump as there have been numerous instances of pump over/pump back into the F&E tank because of this (mismatch).
Ideally you should get a externally mounted pump like you have and install it in the same position, I don't know if you can still purchase gas boilers without an integral pump but I would certainly suggest asking the question, one way or the other I would write down (now) the exact model number etc of your present pump and its speed setting, it just might save you some grief later.
Ideally you should get a externally mounted pump like you have and install it in the same position, I don't know if you can still purchase gas boilers without an integral pump but I would certainly suggest asking the question, one way or the other I would write down (now) the exact model number etc of your present pump and its speed setting, it just might save you some grief later.
Really sorry but you've well and truly lost me there, John.
I said I've re-considered and was reckoning on doing a 'one for one' swap by fitting either a new OV boiler (which, as you will surely know, has no internal pump) and thus retaining the existing Grunfos pump in the airing cupboard - or possibly creating a sealed system by either fitting a new system boiler with built in EV, or maybe converting a new OV boiler to a sealed system with a seperate expansion vessel etc at a later date.
I said I've re-considered and was reckoning on doing a 'one for one' swap by fitting either a new OV boiler (which, as you will surely know, has no internal pump) and thus retaining the existing Grunfos pump in the airing cupboard - or possibly creating a sealed system by either fitting a new system boiler with built in EV, or maybe converting a new OV boiler to a sealed system with a seperate expansion vessel etc at a later date.
That is a beautifully tidy installation, KOP. A real joy to see.
My garage installation is just that - the walls are (reconstituted) stone and all pipework and cabling in the garage is surface. At least it's easily accessed
.I was surprised at the takeover news regarding Intergas. You will know by now I have a soft spot for the brand.
I have most definite discounted a combi of any make for the reason outlined above - something will have to replace the Ideal Classic and that reduces the options. It would be fascinating to be able to look forward for a year (or two) to see where Intergas are then. Maybe the takeover will enhance their presence in the UK? But when you hear of a firm being absorbed into another you always fear the worst these days. I do hope they thrive though, I'd be sad if they didn't.
No, that's fine,Riley. The problem lies with me, not with everyone else. It's in my nature to check things out before I buy them rather than regret a purchase afterwards. And with some things I can quickly get to grips with them but with boilers I see so many bods favouring this manufacturer and slating that manufacturer. It's been drummed into me that every installer has their favourite and five fitters will recommend five different products and that a good boiler fitted by a crap fitter is worse than a rubbish boiler fitted by an expert - but I get advice that is so conflicting about which is rubbish and which is great that, you have to admit, it's confusing.
* Manu's wriggling out of warranty.
* Make sure you get the longest warranty you can.
* Plastic components replacing brass ones.
* Rubber hoses.
* Heat exchangers that clog up due to narrow waterways.
* An Open Vent system is dirty and lets air in and rots your rads.
* A Sealed System will blow all your radiator valves apart.
* A combi is great - no stored hot water which wastes money.
* A combi is dreadful - poor hot water flow in the winter and you have to wait ages for a bowl full of water for the washing up due to long pipe runs.
* Keep your vented cylinder, it's simple and you can fit an immersion heater in case the boiler breaks down.
* You need an unvented cylinder, OK they're a bit complex and not cheap and need fitting by a G3 installer and need a service every year but are so much better than a combi.
You've got to admit all the above (and lots more besides) is here in the forum, and on any other heating forum we might stumble across.
But that's OK - the forum is great coz it airs all those matters and talks about them with views coming from all directions.
It's just a matter of sorting through it and doing your best to make the right choice in the end.
And you fellas have been great.
I must stop rambling.
* Manu's wriggling out of warranty.
* Make sure you get the longest warranty you can.
* Plastic components replacing brass ones.
* Rubber hoses.
* Heat exchangers that clog up due to narrow waterways.
* An Open Vent system is dirty and lets air in and rots your rads.
* A Sealed System will blow all your radiator valves apart.
* A combi is great - no stored hot water which wastes money.
* A combi is dreadful - poor hot water flow in the winter and you have to wait ages for a bowl full of water for the washing up due to long pipe runs.
* Keep your vented cylinder, it's simple and you can fit an immersion heater in case the boiler breaks down.
* You need an unvented cylinder, OK they're a bit complex and not cheap and need fitting by a G3 installer and need a service every year but are so much better than a combi.
You've got to admit all the above (and lots more besides) is here in the forum, and on any other heating forum we might stumble across.
But that's OK - the forum is great coz it airs all those matters and talks about them with views coming from all directions.
It's just a matter of sorting through it and doing your best to make the right choice in the end.
And you fellas have been great.
I must stop rambling.
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How about a Atag Stan if you want a quality bit of kit you won't find em in the merchants or online for sale , the Dutch company deal direct with its install partners and sell straight to us, a good manufacturers warranty 10 years on most and all
Brass and stainless components built to last. Kop
Brass and stainless components built to last. Kop
I had to smile, there KOP - I had a vision of Riley saying "Oh for goodness sake" )
And, indeed, I have looked (but you knew that didn't you)
Along with Viessmann.
And guess what? When I checked both of them out I found all the same arguments and half the world saying there the dog's bolox and built like a tank - and the other half saying you can't get spares, there's no back up, the customer service is rubbish, they're a nightmare to configure or whatever and goodness knows what else...
But (if Riley will forgive me) I'll go and look again.
)And, indeed, I have looked (but you knew that didn't you
)Along with Viessmann.
And guess what? When I checked both of them out I found all the same arguments and half the world saying there the dog's bolox and built like a tank - and the other half saying you can't get spares, there's no back up, the customer service is rubbish, they're a nightmare to configure or whatever and goodness knows what else...
But (if Riley will forgive me
) I'll go and look again.
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Never had any issues mate only problem is the cost of the things they are hard to sell when compared to say Ideal , Baxi , or some of the other manufacturers but definitely worth considering, I installed the all singing and dancing IC 27 economiser in my own home so that tells you something have a look on Trustpilot for independent reviews . Kop
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Don’t I agree with him Atag are great pricey but well madeI had to smile, there KOP - I had a vision of Riley saying "Oh for goodness sake"
And, indeed, I have looked (but you knew that didn't you
Along with Viessmann.
And guess what? When I checked both of them out I found all the same arguments and half the world saying there the dog's bolox and built like a tank - and the other half saying you can't get spares, there's no back up, the customer service is rubbish, they're a nightmare to configure or whatever and goodness knows what else...
But (if Riley will forgive me
The Rapid does not have the low pressure warning.
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