URGENT Leaking hot water cylinder pipe

[bluemermaid]

Please could one of you advise a good adjustable spanner to buy to adjust the packing nut in a radiator valve. I think that’s what the nut is called. I want to see if I can stop the small leak there.

 

[Ric2013]

Please could one of you advise a good adjustable spanner to buy to adjust the packing nut in a radiator valve. I think that’s what the nut is called. I want to see if I can stop the small leak there.

You won't go far wrong with Bahco. That said, adjusting a gland packing nut shouldn't need much force, so any adjustable spanner is likely to be good enough for that job.

me thinking the boiler is not at fault

I reckon it's an illegal DIY boiler install and it's been done badly and now the installer is blaming the boiler. In any case, sounds very much like the reviewer is confused because, as you say, the maths is incoherent.

 

[bluemermaid]

Thanks Ric. Can you tell me what size though, as I have seen all different sizes?

 

[Ric2013]

Thanks Ric. Can you tell me what size though, as I have seen all different sizes?

Well, the point is the jaw opening (the width the spanner need to be to fit the size of the nut (measured across two opposite sides of the hexagon (i.e. across flats)) is adjustable from nil to whatever the maximum jaw opening is for that particular spanner so, in that sense, there is no such thing as a too big adjustable spanner. Most 6" length adjustable spanners will open to at least 24mm (just under an inch) so any of those would be big enough for the average gland nut. Longer spanners will have wider jaw openings and will give you more leverage but are increasingly bulky and can be annoying in confined spaces.

I find an 8" length adjustable spanner to be a generally useful size.

 

[bluemermaid]

Well, the point is the jaw opening (the width the spanner need to be to fit the size of the nut (measured across two opposite sides of the hexagon (i.e. across flats)) is adjustable from nil to whatever the maximum jaw opening is for that particular spanner so, in that sense, there is no such thing as a too big adjustable spanner. Most 6" length adjustable spanners will open to at least 24mm (just under an inch) so any of those would be big enough for the average gland nut. Longer spanners will have wider jaw openings and will give you more leverage but are increasingly bulky and can be annoying in confined spaces.

I find an 8" length adjustable spanner to be a generally useful size.

Thanks for your help again Ric.

I will probably go for this one: Amazon product

 

[bluemermaid]

Well, the point is the jaw opening (the width the spanner need to be to fit the size of the nut (measured across two opposite sides of the hexagon (i.e. across flats)) is adjustable from nil to whatever the maximum jaw opening is for that particular spanner so, in that sense, there is no such thing as a too big adjustable spanner. Most 6" length adjustable spanners will open to at least 24mm (just under an inch) so any of those would be big enough for the average gland nut. Longer spanners will have wider jaw openings and will give you more leverage but are increasingly bulky and can be annoying in confined spaces.

I find an 8" length adjustable spanner to be a generally useful size.

I bought a 6" Bahco adjustable spanner in the end.

I tried adjusting the gland packing nut but it is stuck solid. I can't loosen or tighten it. Any advice please, or should I leave well alone?

 

[bluemermaid]

I bought a 6" Bahco adjustable spanner in the end.

I tried adjusting the gland packing nut but it is stuck solid. I can't loosen or tighten it. Any advice please, or should I leave well alone?

I bought some PTFE tape as well, so I could try repacking to stop the leak, if tightening the nut didn't work (watched some videos) but as I said, the nut is stuck solid, so can't do anything at the moment.

 

[Ric2013]

Probably limescale. WD40?

 

[bluemermaid]

Probably limescale. WD40?

Tried some 3in1 oil and still couldn’t move it at all. Also, tried heat from a hairdryer.

I experimented afterwards with a different radiator that still has a shiny clean gland/nut and I couldn’t budge that either way either!

What am I doing wrong or have they just been screwed in super tight by plumbers in the past and I am not able to grip them well enough or budge them with my little spanner?

When I watched utube video, the guy used next to no force at all, so I am thinking they have just been screwed in extremely tight?

 

[bluemermaid]

Tried some 3in1 oil and still couldn’t move it at all. Also, tried heat from a hairdryer.

I experimented afterwards with a different radiator that still has a shiny clean gland/nut and I couldn’t budge that either way either!

What am I doing wrong or have they just been screwed in super tight by plumbers in the past and I am not able to grip them well enough or budge them with my little spanner?

When I watched utube video, the guy used next to no force at all, so I am thinking they have just been screwed in extremely tight?

Here is a pic of the non-leaking newer nut. Leaking one is same type. As I said, can't undo either of them.

 

[Ric2013]

Well, that gland nut has been tightened fully home. Normally there are a few threads visible - are the others all fully home all as in the picture?. This leads me to think that possibly that valve does not have a traditional gland packing and so you won't be able to service it in the way you intended. It should still unscrew, but if it was tightened fully home in the factory, you'll struggle to undo it now.

Of the non-leaking valves you have, is there a definite resistance to rotation when you turn them or do they turn easily? A correctly set up traditional gland will usually feel a bit stiff whereas O ring sealed glands have less resistance to turning.

3 in 1 oil won't dissolve limescale. It was actually (if legend has it right) designed as an oil which would coat the exposed surfaces of a bicycle chain (and so tends to clog precision mechanisms). WD-40 isn't much good as a lubricant, but it's good for cleaning purposes and it does seem to shift limescale, which was why I suggested it.

 

[bluemermaid]

Well, that gland nut has been tightened fully home. Normally there are a few threads visible - are the others all fully home all as in the picture?. This leads me to think that possibly that valve does not have a traditional gland packing and so you won't be able to service it in the way you intended. It should still unscrew, but if it was tightened fully home in the factory, you'll struggle to undo it now.

Of the non-leaking valves you have, is there a definite resistance to rotation when you turn them or do they turn easily? A correctly set up traditional gland will usually feel a bit stiff whereas O ring sealed glands have less resistance to turning.

3 in 1 oil won't dissolve limescale. It was actually (if legend has it right) designed as an oil which would coat the exposed surfaces of a bicycle chain (and so tends to clog precision mechanisms). WD-40 isn't much good as a lubricant, but it's good for cleaning purposes and it does seem to shift limescale, which was why I suggested it.

Thanks very much for your latest reply Ric. I am learning a lot from you!

3 of the others are tightened fully home as in the previous picture. Just my luck! I don't know about the 4th, as it is a different make to the others (will post pics of the caps) and the plumber stopped that one leaking. It doesn't have a screw for me to take the cap off and have a look underneath like the others and I didn't dare force it off, in case it started leaking again.

The 3 radiators with the nuts tightened fully home turn easily and the different one is very stiff since the plumber fixed the leak (you will see in pic, it was so stiff I needed elastic bands to be able to turn it off after the plumbers left).

So, I am guessing from what you say, that one has a traditional gland and the plumber was able to tighten the nut and fix the leak and the other one he tried to fix must have an O ring sealed gland, which is why it is still leaking? He didn't say that though. Said he had tightened the packing nuts and they were no longer leaking. However, when they had gone and I checked them, only the different one (with white cap) was fixed and the other one (with grey cap) was still leaking. Seems to be leaking worse, so maybe he did do something to it.

Today, I tied a shoe lace around the bottom of the spindle, so I can direct the leak into a plastic container, (from some advice much earlier in this thread about tying some string and using natural capillary action). Seems to be working. Might the Fernox sealer fix the leak temporarily, if I put some around the bottom of the spindle?

I have gone back to my original fear of having the plumbers back in, so I might have another winter with all the leaks! I have seen a bigger drip tray for the hot water cylinder that should fit perfectly and need emptying less often. Hardly leaking at all at the moment but as soon as I heat it up and use the hot water, that's when it starts leaking more again.

At least I had the pilot light fixed on the boiler, which I wouldn't be able to do without in the winter. Oh God, I hope I haven't jinxed it saying that!

 

[exedon2]

That's a pegler Belmont pattern rad valve uses 2 0 rings as seal's
Can still get them seem to remember the older valves needed the green 0 rings later ones red..
Unfortunately first you need to get gland nut lose first!

 

[bluemermaid]

That's a pegler Belmont pattern rad valve uses 2 0 rings as seal's
Can still get them seem to remember the older valves needed the green 0 rings later ones red..
Unfortunately first you need to get gland nut lose first!

Thanks exedon2.

As I said, just my luck!

 

[bluemermaid]

That's a pegler Belmont pattern rad valve uses 2 0 rings as seal's
Can still get them seem to remember the older valves needed the green 0 rings later ones red..
Unfortunately first you need to get gland nut lose first!

While you are here, can I ask you something else about my Vulcan 50 boiler? Do you know if it is likely to have asbestos inside it? I can see some white looking rope inside (you can see it in the pics I posted of inside the boiler), which I have read might be inside Vulcans. If it does contain the rope, or any other kind of asbestos, do any fibres get released when the boiler is serviced?

 

[exedon2]

Almost certainly asbestos rope seals will not give you any problems unless disturbed.
Your boiler and rad valves were made within 10 mls of each other!

 

[bluemermaid]

Almost certainly asbestos rope seals will not give you any problems unless disturbed.
Your boiler and rad valves were made within 10 mls of each other!

Are they unlikely to get disturbed during servicing?

What does '10 mls' mean? 10 years? I like to think they are vintage, just like me haha!

 

[exedon2]

10 miles! Pegler Balby Doncaster Hattersleys Swinton Mexborough 20 min drive between the two.

 

[bluemermaid]

10 miles! Pegler Balby Doncaster Hattersleys Swinton Mexborough 20 min drive between the two.

Oh I see!

Interesting! You are a mine of information...thanks!

 

[Ric2013]

I recognise the white Cosmos valves. Yes, they have a traditional adjustable gland nut whereas, as exedon2 has stated, the Belmont ones don't.

Lucky you to have those Belmont valves. They are good quality and could be repaired. Less lucky, however, is that, as he says, you'd need to get them open and, if they are that tight, perhaps an adjustable spanner may not be enough. Apparently, they are designed to be serviced without having to drain the system (nice touch!). You could try LSX around them - can't see what harm it would do anyway.