Leaky boiler

[Net]

Hello all - I posted a few weeks age regarding a constant pressure drop on my Worcester Junior boiler - various things had gone wrong and within a few months : the expansion vessel was recharged the condense pipe was replaces with wider pipe - I was (before coming onto thread) advised by my plumber to have a sealant added as he did not think the pressure drop was "boiler related" and was small leak in system - I tried to locate but to no avail and eventually agrred to having sealant added approx 5 weeks ago. Since then there has still been a steady drop in pressure but plumber said to just top up every few weeks. Today I went into cupboard which houses boiler to be greeted by fllood - water was streaming from boiler although and by looks of floor had been for some time - however pressure guage showed 2 bar! A small black and red plastic bit had also come out - plumber came out and said plastic thing was relief valve (I think) he rubbed his brow and said he thought needed new valve and new expansion hose and possibly new vessel. He said he could not complete work today so drained system turned off and left. Boiler is still leaking - albeit slightly so I phoned plumber again and he said would be "residue" water left. I don't think it can be and I don't understand how with all the water that came out pressure did not drop. I'm not saying I know anything but could it be the DHW exchanger? If so could water be getting in from domestic cold? Had enough feel like stupid dippy woman and cannot afford more money on this - also freaking out with water into electrics - although boiler off. Plumber due back Weds - I can cope without heating or hot water for few days - should I turn main water off or just do as I have done and chucked bowl under? Worried did more harm than good with sealant! Any advise gratefully appreciated. Thank you

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

you are right in thinking it could be your plate heat exchanger,but it could also be your filling loop which is internal on your boiler and prone to problems if your prv has failed the boiler will need to come off the wall or a major strip down will be required to replace it what is the gauge showing now?,and your right if water gets into your pcb it will fail

 

[Net]

Hi - thanks for replying, Gauge is at zero because plumber drained down and turned all off. I thought because it's a sealed system no further water could get into. Water dripping from left hand side - from what I can see from join around pipe - from looking at service manual I think it may be CH flow connection - no idea what this means or even if I'm right. I have a bucket under which is filling up but slowly - it's a slow steady drip. Plumber is due back Weds - he said there was a hole in a hose. Filling loop is closed and there doesn't appear to be any water from it. I have loads of heaters obtained from various friends and kettles for hot water - kids think it's fun but not sure how they will feel after few days. Mostly concerned about water getting into electrics - although boiler is switched off. Should I turn off water at mains? Will do if have to but the thought of no water at all - especially for loo - is bit too much. I'm sure plimber Ok have used before and boiler is bit freaky but as lone female always wary maybe taken for bit of a dunce! In fairness probably doing good impression of one!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

in all due respect being female is no reason for someone to take advantage of your situation Wednesday to long to wait to get it fixed call another plumber/gas engineer out,if your concerned save a lot of water and turn the mains off where are you located? some one on here maybe able to help or can any of your friends/family recommend someone reputable?

 

[Net]

Thanks Gas Man - I'm sure plumber not taking mick - as my dear nan would say I'm a wee bit "Tired and emotional" I have got a few recommendations from friends and I will get someone else to look at. Plumber did say would need to remove and have good look at and only small firm so hence delay in getting to me - they did come out pdq today just to check it .Greenpeace forgive me - not so worried about water wastage - I shall bung bucket full into water butt for garden - more concerned that it may cause problems. Am I right in thinking must be water from mains going in? Also - stupid question I'm sure - would it be OK to turn mains off but turn it back on say twice a day just so I can collect water and flush loo? Or is that plain daft? Thanks again.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

well i am only a small firm,would not consider leaving some body without heating and hot water for nearly 5 days,so draw your own conclusions in regards to turning off the mains should be ok but as you can appreciate cant really say without looking at the leak

 

[Net]

Yes think you're right - I have left message with couple of plumbers who have been recommended but not sure if I'll have any luck getting someone over weekend - or if I do will probably have to pay more. Think have lost confidence in plumbers - have removed casing so all bits of wire showing. Just for now and because so tired and fed up I'm thinking leave bucket to catch water so at least can flush loo etc - I still don't get how water can still be there if system drained and it's a sealed system - I appreciate you can't really comment without seeing but in your experience is it likely to cause any adverse problems if I leave water on and just let the drip continue until someone else can come out?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

if the leaks on the heating and its drained down no if its on the cold or hot yes

 

[Net]

Sorry Gas Man - I'm being bit dim - do you mean it would leak if it's on the hot or cold even on a sealed system or that it would cause problems if I left water on if it's on hot or cold? Basically should I go to bed and leave water on or am I likely to have bigger problem - olympic pool in hall? Thanks again I appreciate all your help.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

well if its only a drip common sense approach knock it off when you go to bed,monitor it while its on during the day your not being dim your concerned about further damage which is understandable as its your pocket that will be affected,but IMHO 5 days,no heat,no brainer get someone else out,to long with out facility's

 

[SafeGasInstall]

def get some one out to help you ,its Friday long time till Wednesday

 

[Net]

Thank you - I've filled up the bath - got the kids up for final trip to loo (they were well impressed!!) got some water in bottles etc and will turn water off as don't want disaster overnight. Will see how it is in morning and take from there - I will try to get someone else out as five days without anything is a bit much - although my nan saw two wars and would think I was being lily livered! Put heaters upstairs and am so shattered will hopefully get some sleep and dream up lottery numbers to pay for all this! Thank you again you've been a gent!

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Plumbers like yours really freak out the public ! and make us look horrible ..... attitude like his must be named and shamed imho !

 

[Net]

Morning - thank you for all your help last night. I'm waiting to hear back from some other plumbers and hopefully will get sorted before Weds. I turned water off last night and the drip stopped so obviously it is coming from main water supply - as plumber left casing off I managed to get a look and think I can see where it's coming from but as it's so tight bit difficult. I did query how it could be anything to do with expansion vessel or leaky hose if pressure had not dropped he just said "wierd boiler". I now wonder how I can, with no experience, work out problem must be somewhere else and he can't with all his years. I've rated them up to now, they'e always done what I thought was a good job - however did recommend leak sealant which I now wonder could have caused extra problems. I'll cope for next few days - turned water back on this morning and lugged kettles to get children bathed - at the moment they think it's fun! I'll turn water off if I go out and tonight and just muddle through - luckily not too cold. I live in an old house and put a blanket up at the window as no double glazing, to keep heat in as much as possible - what with that and no water I fully expected to see WW11 soldiers turn up! My husband will hopefully be looking down and approve of my war time spirit! Thank you again for your help - nice to have a few reassuring words in a bit of a crisis!

 

[WaterTight]

Turning water off and drip stopping seems to indicate it's not on sealed side. But you could always turn it back on for 10 seconds - then turn straight off again - and see if the drips starts again. If it doesn't it might have been coincidence. If it does start again then yes, it's not on the sealed side. The pressure guage is, as you've said, the biggest clue.

 

[Net]

Thanks - Tried turning off just after tuned on - stopped when off and started when on. If it's not on sealed side I presume from direct water mains? Don't know much but just think sounds expensive! Just spoke to another plumber who tutted at me! Told me I was "silly" and should have gone to Worcester in first place. Did try to say boiler not on guarantee and I would rather go with someone recommended. He also said no one would want to touch it with all previous work done - I did point out had expansion vessel re inflated and sealant added (mistake I think) so hardly re built damn thing. Needless to say won't be asking him round to look at the ruddy thing! Think shall take kids to live in a hut on the beach with no water mains and log fire! Wouldn't think so great in winter though!!!! On plus side all this lugging of kettles is a great workout!

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Where do you live ... Some one from here trusted person will tace care of you !

 

[Net]

Hampshire - Totton area - got a few people coming out but on Monday - Plumbers X Factor! even then doubt they can sort straight away, I'm presuming will need to get parts etc am wondering if I should just forget repair and go for new system entirely - radiators and pipework yonks old and I still will have previousl possible leak to contend with - but I will get few opinions so if anyone can recommend someone who maybe able to help please let me know. Doing OK at moment - water back on mainly for children so they can wash hands and so on - have buckets of water filled and 3 kettles now (could open a tea shop!) heaters scattered about so quite cosy. Will turn water off when I'm out and tonight and just get on with it. My late husband made sure I knew few basic house maintenance stuff - how to turn water off, changing taps etc so I don't feel too overwhelmed at moment - but I don't think that will last too much longer! Thank you again for everyone's help and advise - it's nice to have a bit of reassurance and as lovely as they are my children aren't that good at offering practical support unless it's how to build a play doh blob!

 

[SafeGasInstall]

if you going to changing over boiler and rads i will travel over to you and give you free quote ....but would not be able to travel for boiler repair to you ! if interest just send me privet message and i will be in contact with you !

 

[tackleburger]

you are right in thinking it could be your plate heat exchanger,but it could also be your filling loop which is internal on your boiler and prone to problems if your prv has failed the boiler will need to come off the wall or a major strip down will be required to replace it what is the gauge showing now?,and your right if water gets into your pcb it will fail

Internal filling loop is optional on that boiler so not necessarily fitted.

 

[tackleburger]

Thanks - Tried turning off just after tuned on - stopped when off and started when on. If it's not on sealed side I presume from direct water mains? Don't know much but just think sounds expensive! Just spoke to another plumber who tutted at me! Told me I was "silly" and should have gone to Worcester in first place. Did try to say boiler not on guarantee and I would rather go with someone recommended. He also said no one would want to touch it with all previous work done - I did point out had expansion vessel re inflated and sealant added (mistake I think) so hardly re built damn thing. Needless to say won't be asking him round to look at the ruddy thing! Think shall take kids to live in a hut on the beach with no water mains and log fire! Wouldn't think so great in winter though!!!! On plus side all this lugging of kettles is a great workout!

Look here. This is easily fixed surely you don't need a new boiler. I would suggest that you have a leak somewhere on the cold main but not necessarily the heat exchanger. You need to get a decent outfit out to this, Worcester may well fix this for a fixed fee you should try them. and say you just had a leak so you got the system drained by a friend or something. If something plastic came out it could be a simple part that's easily sorted. You can turn the cold main off at the boiler where the main goes in which on that boiler is the 2nd pipe in from the right (one of the smaller ones) as you face the boiler and will have a slotted screw type valve on it you need to turn that a quarter turn so the slot lies across the pipe. Can't believe no one has told you that.

 

[tackleburger]

! Just spoke to another plumber who tutted at me! Told me I was "silly" and should have gone to Worcester in first place.

Another idiot then you've been unluky with the guys you called sao far sound like a right bunch of morons. A simple fault had turned into a nighmare and Worcester may be you best bet rather than worrying about a new boiler and a re-pipe.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Internal filling loop is optional on that boiler so not necessarily fitted.

yes but i am not looking at the boiler i have to give all the options

 

[Net]

Thank you tackleburger - liking the name sounds like super hero burger! - I'll have a look in morning at pipe you mention although confess feel bit iffy about touching anything in there but I will grasp the nettle! Should I do this whilst mains off? I have a plumber - recommended by friend coming Monday just to have a look my friend says he's a decent guy so hopefully he won't make me feel like a div and won't tut at me (doubt other chap who did that could do my job!) Thanks again

 

[tackleburger]

Do it when off then turn on if you hear or see any water just turn it a peep to fully shut. It should do the trick for you. Sounds like you have found a decent plumber at last. recommendations are best.