Level 2 evening course College in Berkshire - 1 year.

[fuzzy]

always measure centres with pipe, its the only constant

you then need to know what to knock off to transfer a c/c measurement to e/e, end to end and therefore the pipe length

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Quick update...

Course going OK, Monday night theory night turning into bit of a bore. Tutor just seems to pack us off to the library for an hour, then a break and then go though what we just researched with a varierty of answers, such as, how many different sizes of air con pipes are there? My answer 17, his answer 7 but may be 17!!! Not too impreseed an dneither are others, wer'e going to have a word next week although we hav ethe 1st of 4 assessments, pretty basic as expected, H&S, identify 10 plumbing hand tools, identify air con fittings, identify 4 tools with faults and state whether can use or not an dhow if possible to rectify, identify 3 hazards in workshop, suggest solutions an dmake a frame with air con pipe. Pretty simple.

Tuesday practical night very good, plenty more tools etc. Salty pld plumber excellent, getting on well, enjoy it.

As long as Mondays get sorted it'll be OK, few people want to leave due to crap Mondays, I am sure when we 'have a word' all will be sorted as we want to be taught, provided info not research what may well be incorrect info as it seems a complete cop out that as soon as we arrive wer'e told, go to library for an hour and research this or that!

Cheers all.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Sounds to me like teacher is doing a reasonable job. Its interesting that people expect to be taught. We make assumptions that teaching leads to learning, and we are conditioned into sitting and receiving information like we did at school - this process is not a good way of constructing knowledge, because it relies purely on memory - and we find difficulty in remembering things that are not meaningful, or those things that we have not experienced yet.

The teacher is giving you some responsibility to discover your own knowledge and become familiar with research techniques. Have you chatted to the librarian for help in researching British Standards and other documents that might be available from the college library? In terms of learning this way, many students that were not used to doing homework, find this process difficult - because they would rather someone else did it for them (teacher), but this does not provide the same sort of knowledge.

Once you learn how to learn, the teacher becomes less important for the transmission of information, and you start to develop your own ways of collecting, reading, understanding and questioning the knowledge and the teacher. These skills will take you to highest level in education, whereas sitting as an empty vessel waiting to be filled up with information is not very productive.

My suggestion would be to ask the teacher if there is any way of connecting the practical in the workshop, with the theory in the classroom - to make it more relevant and interesting. It sounds like the qualification is laced with meaningless facts, which need to be explained through practical activities, or meaningful discussion in the classroom.

Glad your enjoying your practical sessions - you may want to extend your learning to finding out about professional bodies associated with the sector, and the junior memberships that they have (which include professional journals). Do some research on free manufacturers training - call honeywell, cylinder companies, tap companies and showers. I would also start to become familiar with British Standards - such as BS 6700, which underpins hot and cold water installations. You could also check out how much further learning you could do online - u-tube videos on gas burners, boiler installations, and solar - its all out there waiting to be learned and you don't have to wait to attend college to do it.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

all agreed, doing some research alone is a good thing but as you sau iy then meeds to be backed up in the classroom to corroborate the correct answers and discuss what the subject was actually about.

More updates soon.

 

[fuzzy]

i think good teaching forces the student to apply themselves, but in this case it sounds more like a cop out. as with all things in life a healthy balance is best

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Fuzzy
Agreed.

I have written a proposal for him as to what us students want to learn about other than when he teaches as in the initial 2 weeks after his core teaching we spent 45 odd minutes going through 'plumbing' ferrels, how water gets to a dwelling, stop valves etc. etc. Which is what we want to know.

Update again soon.

Cheers

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Fuzzy
Agreed.

I have written a proposal for him as to what us students want to learn about other than when he teaches as in the initial 2 weeks after his core teaching we spent 45 odd minutes going through 'plumbing' ferrels, how water gets to a dwelling, stop valves etc. etc. Which is what we want to know.

Update again soon.

Cheers

Its an interesting situation this, how students think they know what they should be learning, without ever having experienced a real plumbing event in a sustained way. I know a lot about ferrules, but I have never fitted one, and have only seen them when the water board dig up the road - its not relevant to what we need to know to be plumbers - this knowledge is information and will rarely be applied! I would argue the sector skills councils don't know what plumbers need to know either - they think they do by listing national occupational standards (NOS) but these do not contain the 'silent' process knowledge that is required to perform competently - this is skilled behaviour and is difficult to learn through the college process.

Teaching as 'forcing' someone to act...does not bode well for teacher/student relations, but I do know what fuzzy means, because many of the younger students are not self motivated. However adult students often carry with them the ability to be self-motivated. I believe the teacher knows this and allows his students some agency (freedom) to research, gather questions and discuss in the lesson. However, Rocketmann is not happy with the co-ordination of these learning events in the library, which is a valid critique.

Rocketmann, if the teacher reverts to what is expected, which is chalk and talk, you will be bored ****less and be learning the content of the test, which is easy. Perhaps 'tentatively' talk to the teacher and ask if there can be some formal structure to the research, and a structured discussion afterwards (perhaps ask about the 'relevance' of what it is you are expected to research - does it relate to the practical/theory exam/or plumbing in the field). You might think you are faced with a lazy teacher, however he could be a progressive educator, who gives his students the freedom to act, research, make meaning and question. On the other hand, didactic teaching (transmission of information through language) is not considered as an effective way of helping people to develop knowledge, but instead helps students to 'memorise' facts (not concepts) to be recalled for the exam (teaching to test).

I look forward to the updates and thank Rocketman for allowing us to discuss some educational matters.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Clanger

I do agree as an adult learner that soem research is a good thing but when it is totally unliked and then not further discussed as to what the outcome as I find it a complete waste of time!

Just as a quick example, we arrived at 6pm last monday and as soon as we arrived were told to copy down 5 questions on air con from the board and research teh answers in teh library online, not a problem with that although th equestions on air con have some out fo teh blue as we have not learned anything about air con thus far so it was a shock and confusing as to where we were going. After the reaearch for an hour, boring as it was we were then told to take a 30 min break, back at 730pm. We then went through the questions where our answers were told and the tutors comments as per an earlier post were 'i got the answer 7 but it could be like you say 17!' now, none of us know the correct answer! At 8pm we were told to go home, we are meant to be there until at least 830pm. As also mention the first few weeks we went through bits with the tutor, did some online research, went through some quizes etc an dthen at the end at about 8pm he started to go through some plumbing scenarios, as mentioned,m brilliant, we aere all interested, questions were asked and more to it explained!

It's what we need to get back to an dthis Monday iot will be raised as to this is what we want, we are paying for a course and if the tutor wants top go home early we'll ask for another!

He's a good chap but it seems to have gone to pot. I can research at home if there is to be no meaningful discussion after with corect answers given.

Assessments are to be done this Monday, pretty basic H & S thigs so we'll be busy. After that we'll be starting a new module so we'll see what happens but as you say the silent knowledge could be discussed i.e what is this happened to a tap, how would you maybe fix this, what is tis etc. etc.

Cheers for all replies.

 

[fuzzy]

i hear you rocketman, the course seems to lack structure. remember though, its not a diy plumbing course, content is pre set and out of tutors control, i hear lots of trainees say things like, it never taught me to fit a shower etc, but thats not part of the course, anything like that may be added in for value but they are within their rights not to cover it

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Agreed Fuzzy. The course is good, what we want to do so we're motivated to get as much as we can out!

Little bit here and there will be a bonus.

 

[fuzzy]

i wouldnt ask tutor all at once, get a class rep and they will speak on behalf of everyone, dont want it to turn into a free for all

i guess if you approach it correctly all will be well

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Yeah, agreed. We spoke last week so wilol apprach him week after next as assessments tomorrow so going to be busy. I'll let you know how we go

cheers