Long pipe run from shower to stack, what should I do?

[TSB1989]

Hey, I'm helping out a friend who has a sauna some 20m from his house, at the top of his garden. We're installing the shower and wondered how to get the waste pipe down to the stack. I know they say the maximum length of the discharge pipe is usually 4 metres max but this is 5 times that. I asked him if he wanted a soak-away but he said he was adamant he didn't want one. The two possible routes down the garden either incurs 5 bends or I could go straight but would need the help of some form of pump to overcome a 4ft obstacle.

Also the supply from the house to the shower is running at surface level so it is exposed to the elements. With the recent winters we've had what's the best form of insulation for the copper pipe to ensure it doesn't freeze? I'm not so sure that foam lagging would be man enough. Any help would be much appreciated!!

Thanks,

Tom

 

[PlumbingSucks]

you could sink a cold water storage tank in the ground with a float operated sump pump in it to pump it to the stack.Also you could valve off the supply pipes in the house if possible and valves at the other end so they can be turned off in the winter and drained or just turned back on when needed.

 

[richysafc]

I would definatly install a service valve on the cold feed to the shower to turn it off in the winter months and also a drain off to drain the leg to prevent the pipe prom bursting.
As for the waste i would just increase the size of the pipe after 4m, take it to the next size up, as far as i am aware aslong as its got the correct fall it should flow away still however one of the others on here may be able to confirm that better as i have never actually installed a waste pipe that long for a shower.

 

[TSB1989]

I've looked at sump pumps and they seem a tad pricey. I'd like to push more in the way of just a very long pipe run from the shower to the stack, but I don't know if its ok or not as wouldn't you get a problem with trap seal loss? Maybe if I increased the pipe size every 5m or so and used a resealable trap it'd be ok? Also putting an access point at every other elbow? My friend is still sure he wants the outside supply pipe to be lagged as he will be using it a lot in the winter so what's the recommended insulation so it doesn't freeze?

Thanks

Tom

 

[easyt]

With a winter like the last one when pipes where freezing 2 foot underground I wouldn't fancy an above ground pipe

 

[TC.]

i would be tempted to lose the copper supply pipe, and dig a trench 700 to 1000 deep and use hep, but also insulate it and sleeve it. Hep comes in 15 meter rolls so you shouldnt need to have a fitting under ground just a straight run of barrier pipe. isolation valves both ends and a drain cock at the shower end to drain the leg.

Should be sorted!

 

[TSB1989]

MM I was thinking about the trench idea earlier but theres just so many obstacles in the way such as concrete structures and flower beds. How about I just use the best lagging I can find, run the supply above ground and valve it just before it leaves the house and stick a drain off after so any time in winter someone wants to use it they can turn it on, have the shower, then turn it off again and drain it down to prevent freezing?

And I still don't exactly know what's the correct way to do this 20m waste pipe run from the shower to the stack?

 

[TC.]

well id still be tempted to dig a trench, thats what a breaker is for, and the flowers can always be replanted

 

[TSB1989]

My m8 still doesn't want anything like that done as its a major disruption. I just thought, could trace heating could be an option along with lagging? or would it the outside pipe still be prone to freezing?

 

[Gray0689]

What your suggesting is stupid sorry if that offends but come on 20m away from the house surface lol pop pop pop all winter you need to big down and use a pre insulated pipe for domestic water with a secondary return on hot as you will be waiting for ever to get hot water
And as for the drainage you need to dig to the sewer and tap in and take a 4inch to the shower that's the only proper way to do it anything else will be a bodge job

 

[TSB1989]

Yeh that would be the best way but my m8 specifically doesn't want the major upheaval so we got to think of something else than digging the trench. I'm sure if we used trace heating along with a thermostat it would keep the temperature of the supply constant even in winter months.

 

[Bartdude]

There's no cheap option for a job like this,surface pipework is not good enough,and how can you surface mount the pipes through a garden? There must be a power supply too,what route does that take? It all sounds a bit of a bodge really.

 

[TSB1989]

it runs along the garden wall, there is already electrics terminating at the point where it needs to go. All the pipes and cables are hidden from view with some sheds

 

[Gray0689]

If you do the way your mate wants it you know it won't work or you would not be asking
It's up to you if it was my mate I'd tell him to get someone else if he wants it done that way couse it will never be right and you know it

 

[TSB1989]

I'm just trying to do the best with the situation in hand. He's not going to allow any trench digging as he doesn't want me to break up all this building work he's just completed(bigger the fool him)
So we need to do the best with what we got. This means using ones own imagination and coming up with the best alternative possible. Trace heating sounds like a great idea as when the temperature plummets outside a very weak current flows around the pipe heating it to maintain its normal temperature; no the surface running pipework and cables isn't the most aesthetically pleasing way but theyre hidden behind some sheds. Surely theres nothing wrong with what ive just proposed?

 

[Gray0689]

It you think it's a good idea then do it then let us know next winter what he thinks then lol

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i think it's got disaster written all over it.

 

[kay-jay]

it will all end in tears!

 

[justlead1]

Hi. Why not use a thrust bore to put in the supply using MDPE (Grundermat)

 

[TSB1989]

Thrust bore? grundermat? could you explain please? I am not familiar with it

thanks

 

[easyt]

This explains it pretty well

Johns Water Services - Johns Water Services

 

[allstarsystems]

the only way you could do this properly is to dig a trench and in stall a 4" drain also with shower hot water isnt worth doing to be honest runnning cost would be stupid amount an electric shower i would install and just use either 15mm hep or 20mm mdpe which i would prefer insulate with 25mm thickness lagging and also wrap loft insualtion round this trench i would say 1000mm deep no problem then

 

[carpstu]

just out of intrest how bigger storage tank would you need to run a ele shower for say ten mins

 

[allstarsystems]

u cant really run an electric shower off a storage tank not a good idea why cant you just get a cold supply to the shower?

 

[justlead1]

Check out grundermat / thrust boring on Goggle or look at this site. THRUST BORE- List of thrust bore companies and contractors carrying out thrust boring
If your pal is trying to do it on the cheap, with out knowing whats required, be careful. The chances are that if he's on a tight budget now? He will be even worst when he finds out the running costs.