New Build CH System Sizing | Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board | Page 2 | Plumbers Forums
  • Welcome to PlumbersTalk.net

    Welcome to Plumbers' Talk | The new domain for UKPF / Plumbers Forums. Login with your existing details they should all work fine. Please checkout the PT Updates Forum

Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws

American Visitor?

Hey friend, we're detecting that you're an American visitor and want to thank you for coming to PlumbersTalk.net - Here is a link to the American Plumbing Forum. Though if you post in any other forum from your computer / phone it'll be marked with a little american flag so that other users can help from your neck of the woods. We hope this helps. And thanks once again.

Discuss New Build CH System Sizing in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at Plumbers Forums

Status
Not open for further replies.
Perhaps Bronze you can enlighten us as to how you arrive at these rad sizes of yours ??????

Dear Chris.
Basically I want that guy to have a nice LOW temperature system, so that condensing boiler operates at the peak efficiency, and it also can be heated by the air/grouind source heat pump, without any futher radiators upgrades. -> So house is at 20 even when the rads are just warm (~40)...

The condensing boiler manual states, that you need to uprate your's rads ~2 times with the NORMAL (non-condensing) boiler to achieve peak efficiency. In this case those radiators are UNDERSIZED even for the normal non-condensing system - so another 1.5-2X timer uprate is needed.

In the end we need 2X*2X = 4X or so uprate.

PS: also do check the quality and quantity of the insulation, because ~78% of builder fraud is the quality and quantity of the insulation... In the UK I would also add "and radiator (under-)sizing"... Get the pro with FLIR to take some thermal pics of your's house when there is 0 or so outside.

When Uprating it is important to keep the ratio of radiator's sizes to actual rooms heat demand. - so it would simlify ballancing task.

PPS: My own room had one 1000x600 rad mounted 40 cm above the floor when I've moved in, and no insulation behind it in the 2m wide bay window. With LL consent I've put 2cm of the polystyrene insulation behind it (solid wall), lined it with paper/foil, added another 600x600 rad with the new TRV and inhibitor filling point on top corner, lowered it down to 12-13cm above the floor, and cold floor drafts problem fixed. Also I've got way wider dynamic range of the temps control in the room, using the TRV. And way cheaper than the 300-400KWh of electricity used up before by the oil filled rad...

BTW: When the landlady bought that house in 2006, there was a 1000x600 single convector rad on the internal wall, with no loft or bay window top insulation. No room thermostat, only vintage randal ticking timeswith. No wonders her's son had nearly frozen ones upon a time in the that room. :D
 
Well thank you Bronze_tap for being so honest & admitting that you do not carry out any heatloss calculations (& so many so called engineer also do not), all of what you have posted may or may not be true regarding builders but in this case that will be the builders fault, without some sort of proof i.e. heat loss / design calculations, this can not be proved.

P.S If you are going to quote for a job against me with rads 4 times bigger than the ones I have sized, you are not going to win many jobs?
 
I bet you do Ray but then if I am not wining any jobs your not getting any sales !!!!!

We'll just have to convince everyone that Bronzetap is right. These rads won't sell themselves!

rads.jpg
 
Well thank you Bronze_tap for being so honest & admitting that you do not carry out any heatloss calculations
P.S If you are going to quote for a job against me with rads 4 times bigger than the ones I have sized, you are not going to win many jobs?

It was just sort of estimate using my experience with practical British rad sizing guidelines :)

In my case I'm just a DIY-er, not a pro (despite using water cooling for my server). So that's a hobby... The task is not to win as many jobs as possible, but to enjoy the process and the results in the time free from my main work. An make sure your's friend/colleagues are happy with results too. 90% of them represent 1% of British users, so not an average chaps...

And physicists/chemists usually don't need much explanation what a thermal gradient is or efficiency coefficient is, or what would happen to a modern boiler with plastic bits in a few years time, if you always run it 75+ degrees flow temperature...

PS: But I've not seen anyone saying/complaining that his rad with TRv (or at least tap) was too big so far. :D Why?

And some pro would give customer 2 or more quotes - one for a proper job, and one for a cheapest one... and try explaining what the diff is. Or just quote for the labour w/o rads - and show them the suggested ones to get. The only problem may bee if the custards never lived before in the property with correctly sized rads or UFH.
 
It was just sort of estimate using my experience with practical British rad sizing guidelines :)

In my case I'm just a DIY-er, not a pro (despite using water cooling for my server). So that's a hobby... The task is not to win as many jobs as possible, but to enjoy the process and the results in the time free from my main work. An make sure your's friend/colleagues are happy with results too. 90% of them represent 1% of British users, so not an average chaps...

And physicists/chemists usually don't need much explanation what a thermal gradient is or efficiency coefficient is, or what would happen to a modern boiler with plastic bits in a few years time, if you always run it 75+ degrees flow temperature...

PS: But I've not seen anyone saying/complaining that his rad with TRv (or at least tap) was too big so far. :D Why?

And some pro would give customer 2 or more quotes - one for a proper job, and one for a cheapest one... and try explaining what the diff is. Or just quote for the labour w/o rads - and show them the suggested ones to get. The only problem may bee if the custards never lived before in the property with correctly sized rads or UFH.
Again, I would thank you for your input but the OP would probably not, I have read through the above post a couple of times & with all due respect I can not understand it or what it is you are getting at ?
All I will say is that I do not play at this but earn my living at it, so for a lot of my life it has been all about winning jobs, as far as providing quotes, I give only one & that is the correct one. Priced & sized correctly, can I humbly suggest that you leave the art of rad sizing to the experts on here.
 
Last edited:
I think you'll find most of us on here only quote for a proper job, not a (yeehaa) cheapest one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar plumbing topics

Turned out to be a dirty flame eye inside the...
Replies
8
Views
703
Thanks :) . A happy new year to you!
Replies
23
Views
1K
T
Get an acv cylinder. Great for boiler and work...
Replies
2
Views
684
N
Agree with the above insulation and windows...
Replies
2
Views
1K
They can stick quite easily, try a spray with...
Replies
4
Views
727
Back
Top