new heating system in non-gas area, any ideas?

[Sparkgap]

Plenty of people regret putting in heat pumps too

And biomass! Had two systems which went in, lasted about 3 years, then ripped out to be replaced with oil because they were so much hassle! Did a PFI school in Bedfordshire which had a couple of biomass boilers, they failed within 18 months and school now runs on the backup gas boilers. They also had a wind turbine which went t1ts up after only producing about £100 worth of electric!

Getting back to the OP, it all depends on what capital budget you have. Kerosene fired wet system with rads is cheap and cheerful and works. Fancier systems require more money and might not recover the outlay. I agree, if you can bump up the insulation do so whatever heating is going in. I'd also add if you're going for any sort of electric system you might need to bump up the incoming supply: normal domestic supply is 60A (about 15kW). If you've got an electric shower (usually 9kW-ish) and possibly a cooker it doesn't leave much for heating! Just done a 100kW ASHP/UFH system for a community centre which involved replacing main transformer and sparky sweating bricks because the supply margins were smaller than he was happy with! With all the hassle and costs I wish they'd just gone for gas!

 

[Worcester]

And I can point to many carp gas / lpg and oil systems as well

It's not the technology, it's those who design, install and commission it

There are loads of people out there that shouldn't be let loose on any heating system - See my posts elsewhere.

Knock what we do as much as you like, one thing for sure the writing is on the wall for gas boilers in new builds..

The worst installers of renewable technologies? - Most of them are gas plumbers (and I use that term advisedly) trying to jump on what they see as a bandwagon without investing in the necessary and essential re-training. As Yoda says - You must unlearn what you have learnt.

Why would anyone install a system that for 1 kWh in they get 0.9kWh out when they can put 1kWh in and get 4 kWh out?

 

[plumbtech]

insulation is the the key to keeping heat in and bills low and not really a payback period as it keeps house warm instantly. some ground source , air source have like a 10 year payback. if you are renting it out keep it simple i would say.

oil boiler Worcester outdoor 25/32 with filter have an out door one saves room and smell during service
oil storage bunded around
slab for oil storage
servicing boiler around with filters nozzle hose

lpg gas boiler
lpg storage free....................with quarterly fee
slab and civils
service boiler around

 

[Worcester]

So In summary, what are the occupiers concerns? - Are running costs a priority?

If not, look for the cheapest capital cost of install - probably LPG with a free tank (Why do you get a free tank? because it is the most expensive of all to run)
Next up oil
Next up, if its small and well insulated air/air heat pump - cheaper to install and run than either the LPG or Oil options - insulation is critical
Next up if its well insulated Air/Water Heat Pump
Next up if its not well insulated, manual fill small pellet boiler
Final Ground Source Heat Pump

Did I miss something?

Pays ya money makes ya choice for the next 10 years....

Personally as a balance between capital and running costs I'd go for good insulation underfloor heating downstairs, radiators upstairs and an air source heat pump (split / bi-block) Oh, and let the Government effectively pay my heating bill for the next 7 years.

 

[Nostrum]

you still need a niceic test done every year if rented anyway

Are you sure?

Information for Landlords & Responsibilities | Electrical Safety First

That a House in Multiple Occupation (HMO) has a periodic inspection carried out on the property every five years.
If your property is not an HMO, you are not legally obliged to do this. However, we recommend that a periodic inspection and test is carried out by a registered electrician on your rental properties at least every five years.

 

[jtsplumbing]

So In summary, what are the occupiers concerns? - Are running costs a priority?

If not, look for the cheapest capital cost of install - probably LPG with a free tank (Why do you get a free tank? because it is the most expensive of all to run)
Next up oil
Next up, if its small and well insulated air/air heat pump - cheaper to install and run than either the LPG or Oil options - insulation is critical
Next up if its well insulated Air/Water Heat Pump
Next up if its not well insulated, manual fill small pellet boiler
Final Ground Source Heat Pump

Did I miss something?

Pays ya money makes ya choice for the next 10 years....

Personally as a balance between capital and running costs I'd go for good insulation underfloor heating downstairs, radiators upstairs and an air source heat pump (split / bi-block) Oh, and let the Government effectively pay my heating bill for the next 7 years.

I understand about you Pushing Worcester products , Working for them, but a lot of what your pushing is out of reach cost wise to the average person, a lot of this new renewable technology is not all its made out to be, as someone else pointed out with people having it removed after only a short time, it may work out ok for larger property's, where people have that sort of money to put into it, but in areas of low income its not an option, or even in most locations.

 

[plumbtech]

I understand about you Pushing Worcester products , Working for them, but a lot of what your pushing is out of reach cost wise to the average person, a lot of this new renewable technology is not all its made out to be, as someone else pointed out with people having it removed after only a short time, it may work out ok for larger property's, where people have that sort of money to put into it, but in areas of low income its not an option, or even in most locations.

I agree ,and with ground source I am not even sure there is a payback. Seems so expensive with a lot of units with only 12 month warranty

 

[Worcester]

I understand about you Pushing Worcester products , Working for them, but a lot of what your pushing is out of reach cost wise to the average person, a lot of this new renewable technology is not all its made out to be, as someone else pointed out with people having it removed after only a short time, it may work out ok for larger property's, where people have that sort of money to put into it, but in areas of low income its not an option, or even in most locations.

I don't work for them I have NOTHING whatsover to do with Worcester Bosch!!!!!

(In fact we don't install any of their products at all )

 

[Worcester]

As I mentioned earlier, well designed, well installed, renewable energy systems work. (That's a FULL STOP at the end of the sentence)

I suggest you actually read the actual reports as to why the systems 'failed' did. I can guarantee it was down to one of the following:
No communication between arhcitect and technology provider.
C**ppy design
Undersized Emitters
Undersized Heat Supplier (Heat Pump / Boiler)
C**ppy installation.
Poor controls
Wrong technology for the property or consumer type
Over sold or greedy customers.
The wrong customers (yes they do exist)

We will only install a renewable energy system if is right for the property and right for the client. Sometimes mains gas is the right solution.

NOTHING is out of the reach of Mr & Mrs J Bloggs, if it is right for their property.

However I am never going to convince anybody that has already made up their mind that this 'new fangled' (i.e 20+ years experience on the continent) stuff wont work.

I've fired more plumbers than I care to mention for that attitude, as I can guarantee they wont follow our design or installation instructions and think they know best and screw up at least one element of the install. We spend a lot of time putting right c**p installtions by others.

To get your head behind the technical stuff just see the discussion about 2 or 4 port buffers.

Getting it right is simple, however you do have to know what you are doing, so, when you've been on the design and implementation courses and got the badges, I'll challenge you again to say this stuff doesn't work. It works.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

As I mentioned earlier, well designed, well installed, renewable energy systems work. (That's a FULL STOP at the end of the sentence)

I suggest you actually read the actual reports as to why the systems 'failed' did. I can guarantee it was down to one of the following:
No communication between arhcitect and technology provider.
C**ppy design
Undersized Emitters
Undersized Heat Supplier (Heat Pump / Boiler)
C**ppy installation.
Poor controls
Wrong technology for the property or consumer type
Over sold or greedy customers.
The wrong customers (yes they do exist)

We will only install a renewable energy system if is right for the property and right for the client. Sometimes mains gas is the right solution.

NOTHING is out of the reach of Mr & Mrs J Bloggs, if it is right for their property.

However I am never going to convince anybody that has already made up their mind that this 'new fangled' (i.e 20+ years experience on the continent) stuff wont work.

I've fired more plumbers than I care to mention for that attitude, as I can guarantee they wont follow our design or installation instructions and think they know best and screw up at least one element of the install. We spend a lot of time putting right c**p installtions by others.

To get your head behind the technical stuff just see the discussion about 2 or 4 port buffers.

Getting it right is simple, however you do have to know what you are doing, so, when you've been on the design and implementation courses and got the badges, I'll challenge you again to say this stuff doesn't work. It works.

now now as the local kids would say take a chill pill (you could of said all that in the arms tbh) and are you asking question on buffers?

 

[Worcester]

Nope the buffers question got answered It was actually quite intriguing as well as hydraulically challenging to understand how it works in the installed environment. I just mentioned it to highlight how easy it is to screw up when you don't understand how the systems work and how they control their flow temperatures. - Go over to the renewable section if you want to gen up on it.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Nope the buffers question got answered It was actually quite intriguing as well as hydraulically challenging to understand how it works in the installed environment. I just mentioned it to highlight how easy it is to screw up when you don't understand how the systems work and how they control their flow temperatures. - Go over to the renewable section if you want to gen up on it.

was there when it was written and tbh any system can be screwed up if not done right / lack of knowledge