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Nice one petercj,

I appreciate your informed piece and apologise for my 'potted acount' which is indeed a literature review of books from the era. My experience has been mainly as plumber for the last three decades, with academic learning outside of this field for the past decade, but I still have much to learn. So it is good to have this type of exchange.

I accept the merits of your anecdotes there but there are gaps for further learning on both our parts, because experience is good, but it can shackle the mind. I do not trust my own experience alone to lead me to meaningful knowledge, I sometimes need the help of others like yourself.

Those who were once appathetic about training, turned the notion of competency to their own advantage in the form of their interests directed toward training. I accept the government may have, and still are stumbling from one poor policy to another (traineeships, apprenticeships/richards review/train to gain/a4e) and that is why they are probably turning a blind eye to this productive training system. Those raking in the money from training are unaffected, by current policy because it is growth at all costs. The organisational arrangements with the building engineering services sector over the last decade or so, is determined by strategic intention, and this is not trial and error - which is perhaps our point of departure.

I enjoyed your account and hope that we can both use our learning and capital to help those entering the industry to see it differently and be cautious, given the news today that the construction sector looks bleak for the next decade.

UK construction faces decade of 'pain' | Business | guardian.co.uk

There are others on this forum that hold similar concerns, I just hope we can make some sort of collective effort to make a challenge at some point. We can only change this ourselves, and by that I mean those bending their backs, and doing the job, not 'employers' or their representatives.
 
Nice one petercj,

I appreciate your informed piece and apologise for my 'potted acount' which is indeed a literature review of books from the era. My experience has been mainly as plumber for the last three decades, with academic learning outside of this field for the past decade, but I still have much to learn. So it is good to have this type of exchange.

I accept the merits of your anecdotes there but there are gaps for further learning on both our parts, because experience is good, but it can shackle the mind. I do not trust my own experience alone to lead me to meaningful knowledge, I sometimes need the help of others like yourself.

Those who were once appathetic about training, turned the notion of competency to their own advantage in the form of their interests directed toward training. I accept the government may have, and still are stumbling from one poor policy to another (traineeships, apprenticeships/richards review/train to gain/a4e) and that is why they are probably turning a blind eye to this productive training system. Those raking in the money from training are unaffected, by current policy because it is growth at all costs. The organisational arrangements with the building engineering services sector over the last decade or so, is determined by strategic intention, and this is not trial and error - which is perhaps our point of departure.

I enjoyed your account and hope that we can both use our learning and capital to help those entering the industry to see it differently and be cautious, given the news today that the construction sector looks bleak for the next decade.

UK construction faces decade of 'pain' | Business | guardian.co.uk

There are others on this forum that hold similar concerns, I just hope we can make some sort of collective effort to make a challenge at some point. We can only change this ourselves, and by that I mean those bending their backs, and doing the job, not 'employers' or their representatives.

Don't hold your breath hoping for an kind of collective effort Clanger - thirty years of rampant individualism drip fed by the media has seen the majority shun the idea of trade unionism or any other form of collective effort.

The outlook for young people is very bleak, and I suspect that any kind of collective effort will have to come from them.

The current Government are only too happy to exploit the current unemployment situation by such changes as 'regional pay' for the public sector, and as announced recently, cutting pay, as with the reduction in starting pay for the police. The constant playing off between the public and the private sector keeps people's minds occupied while the standard of living for working people is generally being lowered, i.e. the race to the bottom.

Training will no doubt be increasingly provided by the private sector, and people will be required to fund it themselves.

The current Government have used the present financial crisis to make various ideological changes that have nothing to do with saving money, in fact many of the changes have cost more than it would have done to carrying on with the status-quo. I don't see the next Government changing things back either. As long as the majority are cushioned from the worst of the changes, the wind-down in the general standard of living will continue.

To be quite frank clanger, I think people generally get the politicians they deserve, i.e. if they want to swallow the right-wing propaganda put out by the Mail, the Sun, etc, so be it.

I do feel for young people because they've played no part in creating this mess, and many of them are staring at a blank wall with so little in the way of opportunity to help themselves.

Apparently, this is the price we pay for democracy.

When I heard the other day that politicians think they are entitled to a 32% rise, I just laughed - what else can you do?
 
Very good guy's, just wish I could join in with a limited contribution of my own but the training of apprentice must come first, revision of electrical theory after 19 weeks (half a days) on a Plumbing course beckons, that make sense to someone I hope !
 
Chris,

Can you explain this is more detail please. I am a little behind on the current format of plumbing courses with regard to electrical content. However, I do know there were issues some time ago circa 2010. Are you suggesting that more revision of electrical content is necessary?
 
Chris,

Can you explain this is more detail please. I am a little behind on the current format of plumbing courses with regard to electrical content. However, I do know there were issues some time ago circa 2010. Are you suggesting that more revision of electrical content is necessary?
Later darling, later, I was not joking about the call on my time at the moment. :wink5:
 
hi and hello.l3 is the 3rd part of your nvq what ever course it is in, your acesser would or should guide you for what you want out of it.
you cant take a heavy goods class one test on a provisional driving license, just the same as l3 nvq unless you are doing your 1-2 and 3 together, that is how i was told when i did mine
 

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