one to get the brain working

[jmcni]

okay anyone who has read any of my posts will know i simply dont touch anything above me on the heating side of things .
my friend invited me to have a look at a system today
it is a pressurised system and everything is located beside the boiler which is housed in the garage adjoining to the house itself.
first off the installation lacks a mains , so they have obviously filled the system by using the garden hose connected to the usual flexi hose and valve.
then i noticed that there is a piece of copper (not tubing) hanging freely from the set up . by the time i had looked it was getting dark so have not been able to see exactly where it originates but it looks like a 5-6mm thick copper with 10-12mm prongs or fork at the end of it. what is it ? the system has not been active for around 5-6 years as the house has lay empty but it did work at some stage and to be honest the system was only installed a few months prior to the house ending up empty so it is all in relatively as new . i will try to get up to it and take pics asap too

 

[Dotty]

You got a photo of it?

 

[AWheating]

a sealed system without a filling point?...... id expect it to be a very poor installation then. you will need a competent gas engineer to check and recommission it.

 

[TBServices]

How do you know it's pressurised? How old do you expect the boiler is, and what is it?

 

[stevetheplumber]

manifold?

 

[Leo21]

Prv connection?

 

[dom_plumber_ire]

its probably the probe of the thermostat, thats what it sounds like lol

 

[jmcni]

okay no pic yet i`ll try to answer individually first tbservices what a name lol I know its a pressurised system because i did cover systems in tech all them years ago but the firm i worked for had service engineers so i couldnt gain much experience and since leaving i stick with the plumbing side atm until i can afford refreshers ,it has the expansion tank thats normally red and has the diaphram with the top half being air and the bottom being the water. the boiler as said is no more than 6 years old but has been used maybe twice at the start and the house has lay empty since so not much usage at all mate , its a warmflow boiler and as said i need light to see it and didnt get a chance to get up today unfortunately. On first impressions i think its a thermostat probe but cant imagine why it would be hanging there but hey whatever it is it shouldnt be where it is lol thankyou all i will post pics tomorrow as i`ll defo be up there

 

[Best]

Maybe a fire valve sensor?
As to the filling point needing a garden hose to fill it, - nothing wrong with that, it's not against regs, but is a pain to have to fill the hose with water & connect it each time. Just needs a filling loop with a pressure gauge somewhere handy, like near the hot cylinder.

 

[geminigas]

The filling point may not be close to the boiler, but somewhere else in the property. If someone has fitted a remote filling loop, then hopefully they have fitted a pressure gauge next to to filling loop.

 

[jmcni]

[video=youtube;zud0AFVJA7w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zud0AFVJA7w&feature=youtu.be[/video]

this is the offender as you see its coming from the oil line

 

[tipintim]

It is a fire stop valve to cut off oil to boiler

 

[jmcni]

but should it be hanging loose ?

 

[Dotty]

Not really. I usually screw a couple of 15mm sb clips to the boiler casing, about 200mm up from the burner, and secure the phial in them.

 

[Best]

That fire valve is supposed to be outside the building, with the sensor inside & above the burner. That may mean it needs a new fire valve with a longer pipe to the sensor. (the "wire" from the valve is actually a copper pipe)

 

[Dotty]

That fire valve is supposed to be outside the building, with the sensor inside & above the burner. That may mean it needs a new fire valve with a longer pipe to the sensor. (the "wire" from the valve is actually a copper pipe)

Ideally yeah, you're right. But when retro fitted to an existing oil line, immediately where it emerges can be acceptable.

That there is too close though.

 

[Best]

Ideally yeah, you're right. But when retro fitted to an existing oil line, immediately where it emerges can be acceptable.

That there is too close though.

Yes, to bring each oil boiler up to new regs would be often impossible.

 

[jase158]

To be honest whenever you see a boiler/ cylinder outside it means 2 things,

1. its not looked after
2. some cowboy has fitted/ maintained it.

you are much better to walk away mate, they will either expect you to do a rubbish job or to get it working with minimal cost. it will take a lot more work then they want to have done and they will diy as much as possible, cover yourself and leave it be. talking from experience here.

 

[jmcni]

I would imagine the oil line will need replacing anyway ,so moving the cut of should not be a problem, as said its been sitting doing nothing for so long i would guess it would have sludged by now as would the oil tank. Found out today that the system was installed with a housing improvement grant , they are hard to work for and slow to pay so i`d say the majority of ones taking the work on arent much use. But surely this should have been checked by someone before it was signed off ?

 

[Best]

The oil line may be fine but I would check there is no water in tank or oil pipe, clean the oil filter, disconnect the pipe at the fire valve & run 2 or 3 litres oil through.
Heating system will need water & inhibitor if it is drained!
The boiler will need serviced fully & the expansion vessel recharged with air. Good luck to them with the circulating pump & burner motor & oil pump, as these will probably be seized, although not necessarily unfixable. Bearings can be replaced on the motor no prob. I have seen similar unused boilers easily got going. They may have to consider a new Sterling burner if that one is really bad, or an entire decent new boiler like a Grant or Worcester.
Looks a bit poor work - the flow & return pipes joined to one side of boiler & the circulating pump jammed tight because they used a male bend. Could be worse though! A local oftec guy could help, if he has proper experience.

 

[dancinplumba]

To be honest whenever you see a boiler/ cylinder outside it means 2 things,

1. its not looked after
2. some cowboy has fitted/ maintained it.

you are much better to walk away mate, they will either expect you to do a rubbish job or to get it working with minimal cost. it will take a lot more work then they want to have done and they will diy as much as possible, cover yourself and leave it be. talking from experience here.

how do you work that one out ?
you see lots of good quality work in outhouses, you sure you know what you are talking about ?

 

[jase158]

how do you work that one out ?
you see lots of good quality work in outhouses, you sure you know what you are talking about ?

only talking from experience, may not always be like that!!

 

[SimonG]

I see good work inside and out and I see poor work inside and out.
With oil I like to see it in a boilerhouse/garage/shed/external boiler. Makes it easier when it goes wrong and you're not having to drag sooty things out of a boiler inside a spotless white kitchen.

 

[Dotty]

I see good work inside and out and I see poor work inside and out.
With oil I like to see it in a boilerhouse/garage/shed/external boiler. Makes it easier when it goes wrong and you're not having to drag sooty things out of a boiler inside a spotless white kitchen.

I agree. I hate seeing oil boilers in a kitchen. You always get an oily aroma.

 

[Best]

That's so true! Nothing worse than a boiler in a nice kitchen going sooty - just impossible to stop that lighter than air, fine soot that oil boilers can create when running bad, invisibly floating all over the room & landing on all the surfaces. Rub the worktops with a damp cloth & it turns to black ink. People will assume you are just messy!
I think the best place for any boiler is ideally inside a garage that is part of a house - so heat goes directly in, without any loss & it's easy to service or replace without the bother of a boiler tight in the middle of kitchen units.