Opinion on quality of pipe work (pictures)

[nicro3]

Thanks for the replies. There was a ceiling when they he did the work. Laths and plaster. After the work was done I took the rest of the ceiling down. He says that the elbows were left so they'd fit if the ceiling was overboarded and that now "all" I need done is for the ceiling to be lowered.

Maybe the plumber thought a small bulk head would have covered the pipes. Meaning you did not need to take down the whole ceiling, just a thought!

 

[PlumbBobBob]

just another thought maybe the plumber expected your plasterer to overboard the whole ceiling on top of the lathe and plaster

 

[SimonG]

It's another one of those one sided stories. It doesn't look clever, but was it a 'cheap and cheerful' job or was it 'I want the best from a real plumber' job. A few lengths of 2 x 1 slathers lathe and reboard, job done. I don't have a problem with plastic and would have preferred to see copper but again it goes back to my point above.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Whats above the kitchen?
i cant understand why they have notched underside and dont see no felt either. I think its rough but either way why cant the plasterers board it??

 

[JCplumb]

When the original ceiling was there I'd say there was nothing wrong with this job. It's plastic but plastic is used every day without problems. I prefer copper and a lot of plumbers do, but plastic does the job and sometimes it can be the least disruptive material to use, especially where access is tight as it seems to have been here.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Dont see nothing wrong with plastic at all to be honest we all use it in drainage besides you go work most places around the p[lanet and you will see platic in most major builds wether it be push fit to electro fusion weld

 

[tamz]

Hi tamz I have had a quick look through BS5268-2 can't see anything about cutting underside can you point me to the appropriate section / page, please ? It may be worth putting some limitations on cutting them otherwise we may have some of the young-en's cutting a third of the way through in the middle of the span, just like I see them doing on the top of the joists.

2.10.9 Chris (or 6.5 in EC5 if you are good at maths) but like reading our standards nothing is ever totally clear. It is easier to follow Trada guidelines which are below with a nice wee drawing.
Btw, cutting notches at a slope places less stress on the timber.

 

[woodsy]

As said by others, regardless of whether you like plastic or not, it appears to be a one sided tale to me and i personally don't like slagging somebody off without all the facts which i don't feel we have got. The pipes should of been drilled through the joist and hidden but if the installer wasn't told that taking down the ceiling was an option then how can we criticise. Been on the end of one of these type of tales and its really annoying to say the least.

 

[chris watkins]

2.10.9 Chris (or 6.5 in EC5 if you are good at maths) but like reading our standards nothing is ever totally clear. It is easier to follow Trada guidelines which are below with a nice wee drawing.
Btw, cutting notches at a slope places less stress on the timber.

As we always say "we live & learn" thanks tamz, the 1/8 - 1/4 of the depth & the zoneing are well published (BS 6700, 8000 & building regs to name just a few) but I have never seen it stated bottom as well as top.
I always thought because the joists were under compression the underside would be pulling apart & therefore more effected if notched but clearly not so great an effect if kept close to the ends.
Nice one !!!

 

[Mike Jackson]

I's always assumed that you shouldn't notch the bottom for the same reason but a spot of googling reveals loads of information stating that it's okay as long as you don't notch top and bottom at the same end.

 

[stevetheplumber]

i stand corrected on the notching of joists from below not some thing id consider must be a pig holding the skill saw over your head getting covered in saw dust

 

[Avatar]

Tell you truth I prefer JG - but I usually give the customer the choice of copper or plastic.

Quite often they will go for the plastic pipe due to the cost of the copper pipework and extra labour . . . . .

Nought wrong with Speedfit if done according to manufacturers instructions, fitted correctly and clipped out right.

Problem it is open to abuse - I see a lot of Hep thrown around by general builders in the most horrifying way and it gives placcy pipe a bad name.

Just the other day i removed a Hep pipe that a 'Bob the Builder' had connected right to the very top of an un-vented cylinder!

However it is easy to see plastic and shout 'bodge' but it may very well not be . . . . . . .

Very soon if copper prices continue to increase we may have to do almost everything in plastic - or gold if it is cheaper!!!

 

[chris watkins]

Tell you truth I prefer JG - but I usually give the customer the choice of copper or plastic.

Quite often they will go for the plastic pipe due to the cost of the copper pipework and extra labour . . . . .

Nought wrong with Speedfit if done according to manufacturers instructions, fitted correctly and clipped out right.

Problem it is open to abuse - I see a lot of Hep thrown around by general builders in the most horrifying way and it gives placcy pipe a bad name.

Just the other day i removed a Hep pipe that a 'Bob the Builder' had connected right to the very top of an un-vented cylinder!

However it is easy to see plastic and shout 'bodge' but it may very well not be . . . . . . .

Very soon if copper prices continue to increase we may have to do almost everything in plastic - or gold if it is cheaper!!!

And the problem being what ??? (apart from Bob playing with un-vented)

 

[Avatar]

The problem was that a Hep fitting was connected directly to a 30mm piece of copper on the top of the cylinder and bent into place to boot.

I called Heatra Sadia about it and they said it was a no no according to their installation requirements . . . . .

If the cylinder overheated it would split the o-ring in the Hep fitting pretty damn quickly!

I know the first 2 meter of outlet from a combi must be in copper (for no doubt the same reason!) it is a rule i would certainly stick too when dealing with the outlet on a hot water cylinder . . . .

Its common sence isn't it?!?!

 

[chris watkins]

The problem was that a Hep fitting was connected directly to a 30mm piece of copper on the top of the cylinder and bent into place to boot.

I called Heatra Sadia about it and they said it was a no no according to their installation requirements . . . . .

If the cylinder overheated it would split the o-ring in the Hep fitting pretty damn quickly!

I know the first 2 meter of outlet from a combi must be in copper (for no doubt the same reason!) it is a rule i would certainly stick too when dealing with the outlet on a hot water cylinder . . . .

Its common sence isn't it?!?!

So what are we saying that plastic pipe work can not be used with un-vented hot water systems ? or that they should not be connected to the outlet directly ??
PS Can not find anything in the M.I's that states that plastic can not be used.

 

[pipeline]

im not a plumber.. but wouldnt it be a better idea to drill holes through the middle of the joists and run the pipes that way,, i over board ceings all the time and havnt gone through a pipe yet (touchwood)..

 

[andyplumber2009]

IMO, ask yourself what you want....
- How much to overboard compared to not having to lower ceiling?
- How much for 1/2 days labour for the plumber to put right?
- will you notice the difference with the finished job either way?

For me, it is compromise with the plumber on cost and drill joists. It will be much easier for him too now the ceiling proper is down. i would be actively trying to keep you sweet cos if you removing walls and renewing pipework there may be more work in the offing.....

 

[Guest123]

I's always assumed that you shouldn't notch the bottom for the same reason but a spot of googling reveals loads of information stating that it's okay as long as you don't notch top and bottom at the same end.

Therefore lies a problem. If the joists are notched on the underside and hidden out of view from the room above, any installers lifting the floor boards above are not going to be aware that the joists have been notched on the underside if the notch can't be seen. The joists might then be notched in error on top and bottom.

I've nothing against plastic, (although I only use copper,as that's my preference) except that for changes in direction, a fitting is generally required. Multiple changes in direction means multiple use of fittings and they are big, bulky and unsightly if on view. For peace of mind in areas that are inaccessible, I personally feel safer with soldered fittings.

The vast majority of new builds use plastic systems now and I don't see this trend changing anytime soon. It's easy to slag off plastic like in this instance, because it does look unsightly at times and the fittings are big, ugly and bulky.

As to the OP, I'd perhaps say without any malice intended to either yourself or the plumber involved, that the job looks like there was either a misunderstanding or breakdown in communications between you both. I'd suggest that you ask for the pipework to be pressure tested (as per manufacturers specs.) before the ceiling goes back up and perhaps meet him him half way with the way that the ceiling can be fitted to accommodate his pipework.

Whatever you decide, the pipework MUST be pressure tested first anyway.

 

[stevetheplumber]

given whats there id run a batten along paralel to the pipes either side and drop that section of the ceiling either plastered or with a panel