Not been on site for at least two years now but the cylinder included the solar pump and connections.
combi price included £15 for coring the flue.
-
Welcome to PlumbersTalk.net
Welcome to Plumbers' Talk | The new domain for UKPF / Plumbers Forums. Login with your existing details they should all work fine. Please checkout the PT Updates Forum
Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
American Visitor?
Hey friend, we're detecting that you're an American visitor and want to thank you for coming to PlumbersTalk.net - Here is a link to the American Plumbing Forum. Though if you post in any other forum from your computer / phone it'll be marked with a little american flag so that other users can help from your neck of the woods. We hope this helps. And thanks once again.
- Thread starter village idiot
- Start date
- Replies 53
- Views 7K
-
- Tags
- plumber
Discuss Plumber Shortage in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at Plumbers Forums
- Status
Not been on site for at least two years now but the cylinder included the solar pump and connections.
combi price included £15 for coring the flue.
I'll row back a bit on what I said. The other routes to getting qualified as opposed to serving a four year apprenticeship are great to help people, especially older people who want and need a second chance at life gain a new start and a qualification. It's great for those it helps and those who appreciate it and really love our trade and want to learn as much as they can and get ahead in life. I've worked an awful lot of people over the past couple of years who haven't got a clue and aren't even ashamed of that, they just couldn't care less.
D
drip-dry
There is qualified and qualified,the real qualified tradesman is an aging breed and that is only going to become a bigger problem,correct training is no longer in place and truly qualified tradesmen,can not afford to take trainees on,skills are not being passed on....skill levels fall as the scope of skill sets required diminish...with the increasing population ,lesser skill levels can survive however that does not stop the lesser skill levels coming out from their comfort zone and tiring to grab an bit of the surrounding fruit..we have a big problem with the job titles within our trade....at the very basic you have the decorators by summer and so called plumbers by winter
- Messages
- 3,311
I think that whichever route someone takes into the industry, we can all agree that no training sets someone up to be successful. It's the experience of actually working on the job coupled with the right desire to continuously improve that makes the difference between good tradespeople and average/mediocre ones.
I wasn't having a dig Neil, honestI just think its more about the individual than the route they have taken to getting there.
Capiche Simon I agree with you !And that's my little rant over, if anyone disagrees with me, phone's going off I'll reply tomorrow , I'm off to the Land of Nod goodnight!
R
REDSAW
my rule is 12'' and it comes out 7 times a day!.
theres also a shortage of plumbers......again.yawn
soon top that up with romainians when they read it...
theres also a shortage of plumbers......again.yawn
soon top that up with romainians when they read it...
- Messages
- 121
Ray's got it right. It's all well and good being a 'plumber' who can bang a few push fits on to get a bathroom in, but what happens when they come across something away from the ordinary that requires knowledge of how a system actually works? I worked for a Joiner the other night (Friday night/Saturday morning I think?) who called me out to repair a failed and leaking CH pump. After an hour of telling me he hasn't got a clue about plumbing, I got the job finished and putting the tools in the van, noticed on the side of his van it said "qualified joiner, builder and plumber"! I mentioned it to him, and he said he was qualified as he'd done an assessment somewhere and they'd passed him and sent certs out.
If that's what competition proper plumbers are up against, then it's always going to be an uphill struggle.
I personally only do emergencies (leaks, bursts, DIY disasters) and find it much more profitable than any normal plumbing or gas work I've ever done. Certainly when it's put side by side with boiler swaps and servicing etc, give me a panicking home owner with a DIY husband any day! I don't even advertise being GSR now, and I pass all those enquiries on to a mate who's almost retired. The last thing I want to be doing is stripping boilers down and taking fires apart with all the responsibility that comes with it, when I can turn up, repair a burst, replace a stop tap etc and be gone within the hour and on my way to the next job.
I could always go and work for the big boys (Bowmer and Kirkland are taking on for £100 a day in Manchester City centre) but by the time I've got my gloves on, my high viz, hard hat, goggles, ear defenders and found my way into a canteen full of farting, smoking, beer stinking builders after paying £20 to park for the day, I think I'd rather stick to what I'm doing.
As long as there are plenty of 'plumbers' out there to advertise their services and then make a total ballcocks of a job, there will always be a line of work for anyone willing to get their back side out of bed and follow up after them.
Absolutely no offence intended to anyone, I'm on my second job tonight and bored waiting for a landlord, so I thought I'd harass the UKPF!
If that's what competition proper plumbers are up against, then it's always going to be an uphill struggle.
I personally only do emergencies (leaks, bursts, DIY disasters) and find it much more profitable than any normal plumbing or gas work I've ever done. Certainly when it's put side by side with boiler swaps and servicing etc, give me a panicking home owner with a DIY husband any day! I don't even advertise being GSR now, and I pass all those enquiries on to a mate who's almost retired. The last thing I want to be doing is stripping boilers down and taking fires apart with all the responsibility that comes with it, when I can turn up, repair a burst, replace a stop tap etc and be gone within the hour and on my way to the next job.
I could always go and work for the big boys (Bowmer and Kirkland are taking on for £100 a day in Manchester City centre) but by the time I've got my gloves on, my high viz, hard hat, goggles, ear defenders and found my way into a canteen full of farting, smoking, beer stinking builders after paying £20 to park for the day, I think I'd rather stick to what I'm doing.
As long as there are plenty of 'plumbers' out there to advertise their services and then make a total ballcocks of a job, there will always be a line of work for anyone willing to get their back side out of bed and follow up after them.
Absolutely no offence intended to anyone, I'm on my second job tonight and bored waiting for a landlord, so I thought I'd harass the UKPF!
A
Arnoldheatnpipe
I'm glad I learned screwed steel pipe in my apprenticeship do loads of it now lol. The main advantage I see of an apprenticeship is just that it should make you cover at least a small portion of everything you might need to do. It's down to the individual definately but I think the right individual with the proper apprenticeship training is the best mix
You've summed up in your last sentence exactly how I feel.
- Messages
- 5,067
I have got to come back on this one cr0ft, now I know we both come at this one from opposite ends (apprenticeship & self taught) but come on "Yet the college doesn't teach them anything useful like how to read a tape measure, how to use a spirit level" Why would a college (or a student for that matter) waste time teaching them that, those are skills best learnt by being shown & doing on site aren't they? along with loads of others as you say, thats why plumbing can't just be learnt in a school.
The things that are taught on these NVQ courses you think are such a waste of time are not just made-up, the areas & subjects are laid down by Sector Skills Counsel (or were) to which you could have an input. They are the skills that the industry has decided a plumber should possess & not just what your little company may need at this time.
Maybe this could be a good thing, as your company grows or moves into other areas of work with wider skill needs, or maybe it would just allow that college trained apprentice to get a job elsewhere for a different company as "a job for life from school is incredibly rare now".
Last edited:
- Messages
- 3,311
I don't take huge issue persay with what the colleges teach but things like actually being able to use a tape measure and convert cm to m etc are basics that should be taught before anything else ink. Christ, I learned this in primary school and I definitely don't think its an employers job to teach such basic stuff.
Our company is indeed little as you say but we cover a pretty wide range of tasks. As someone who is paying for the lads college training I stand by my statement that I don't think it's good value for money.
Sorry if that offends people but that's my opinion. I don't think either route prepares you well tbh and I think the training could be so much better than it is. My reference is seeing and delivering training in the military and being on the receiving end of training in various industry courses now.
An example being exams that pretty much give you the answers. Lads can easily leave college without a decent understanding of their job.
Our company is indeed little as you say but we cover a pretty wide range of tasks. As someone who is paying for the lads college training I stand by my statement that I don't think it's good value for money.
Sorry if that offends people but that's my opinion. I don't think either route prepares you well tbh and I think the training could be so much better than it is. My reference is seeing and delivering training in the military and being on the receiving end of training in various industry courses now.
An example being exams that pretty much give you the answers. Lads can easily leave college without a decent understanding of their job.
Last edited:
- Messages
- 869
As an apprentice who done 3 years and now in my final year of advanced NVQ I have to agree with Croft and also have to admire the fact you take interest in what your apprentices do that one day a week.
I have been in fulltime education for 5 years after leaving school (Alevels and university) then going back to college to study plumbing.
In my experience school was by far the best in terms of educating you. As soon as you leave school your education is given into your hands. No teacher will push you anymore, and your parents wont either. This means only extremely driven individuals benefit fully from education at colleges. 99% of people I studied with did just enough to get grades and had no extra interest in the subject past "this will net me a good job and life". Soon as exam is over you forget everythin you learned. You will only remember things that apply to your everyday work that you would learn anyway since its your everyday work.
If thats not bad enough you have plenty of "employers" who take on apprentices for a year or two, use them as cheap labour and havnt the slightest interest in teaching them anything. You have learning providers who only see you as a number,your attendance and exam pass rate.They couldnt care less about the quality of education they are providing, corners are cut absolutely everywhere. The NVQ book is written but not proof read and contradicts itself every other page, just about as often as your teacher contradicts the book and himself.
They must make exams harder. As it stands you dont need to revise, hell people who dont attend college pass them first time. Multiple choice of 4 answeres I mean come on you get the right answer surrounded by 3 wrong answers. No incentive to open the book. Dont even get me started on practical lessons and the workshop..
So long as this carries on the only decent plumbers will be self motivated, driven individuals using their own initiative to learn and work hard. The system isnt creating decent plumbers, merely people who can plumb.
I have been in fulltime education for 5 years after leaving school (Alevels and university) then going back to college to study plumbing.
In my experience school was by far the best in terms of educating you. As soon as you leave school your education is given into your hands. No teacher will push you anymore, and your parents wont either. This means only extremely driven individuals benefit fully from education at colleges. 99% of people I studied with did just enough to get grades and had no extra interest in the subject past "this will net me a good job and life". Soon as exam is over you forget everythin you learned. You will only remember things that apply to your everyday work that you would learn anyway since its your everyday work.
If thats not bad enough you have plenty of "employers" who take on apprentices for a year or two, use them as cheap labour and havnt the slightest interest in teaching them anything. You have learning providers who only see you as a number,your attendance and exam pass rate.They couldnt care less about the quality of education they are providing, corners are cut absolutely everywhere. The NVQ book is written but not proof read and contradicts itself every other page, just about as often as your teacher contradicts the book and himself.
They must make exams harder. As it stands you dont need to revise, hell people who dont attend college pass them first time. Multiple choice of 4 answeres I mean come on you get the right answer surrounded by 3 wrong answers. No incentive to open the book. Dont even get me started on practical lessons and the workshop..
So long as this carries on the only decent plumbers will be self motivated, driven individuals using their own initiative to learn and work hard. The system isnt creating decent plumbers, merely people who can plumb.
It depends on tradesman. I have had (when on sites ( apprentices given to me who knew nothing....as they had carried (a supposed ) tradesmans flask for 3 years or had been made to do the cast iron gutters for 2 years
Its about how they are trained and how keen. They wont be keen if having to carry a flask around.
Used to get paid a % of what the apprentices did ( was pricework ) ... Noticed apprentices worked a LOT harder and faster when encouraged by getting extra money .
And NO I didnt make them rush.....I made them do straight lines ...everything properly clipped
AND they had to tell me EXACTLY what each component or pipe was for etc BEFORE i passed it
Its about how they are trained and how keen. They wont be keen if having to carry a flask around.
Used to get paid a % of what the apprentices did ( was pricework ) ... Noticed apprentices worked a LOT harder and faster when encouraged by getting extra money .
And NO I didnt make them rush.....I made them do straight lines ...everything properly clipped
AND they had to tell me EXACTLY what each component or pipe was for etc BEFORE i passed it
- Messages
- 7,703
no plumber shortage around my way , i know other trades that say their are to many plumbs .
i do recall couple year ago bored on site chippie , sparks and myself watching the traffic pass outside decided to see who got to 10 first counting their own trade vans that passed by on the road outside
i was upto ten in first few mins plumbs vans were constantly passing by , its same everywhere.
i do recall couple year ago bored on site chippie , sparks and myself watching the traffic pass outside decided to see who got to 10 first counting their own trade vans that passed by on the road outside
i was upto ten in first few mins plumbs vans were constantly passing by , its same everywhere.
J
julesverne
Would city and guilds be better having an Acs style exams where you have core plumbing knowledge. Then having a set of specialist subjects to choose from. Learning guttering and lead was no good to me as ive never done lead and rarely do guttering. Did iron work never never done any in the real world but i am glad i learnt it.
That is the current basis is it not I started with key plumbing principles and had a further 12 areas after
Apparently 1 in 3 construction companies have to turn down bidding oppertunities. If that's true why not pass the opportunities to smaller companies ready to move up the ladder thus making way for others to move into the sector without the requirement for proof of 1 million pound a year turn over???
Attachments
- Messages
- 10,604
who is to blame for this skill shortage ? er could it be companies like balfours who have been riding high on cheap imported labour and failing to train for the future
when i started in this game you either became an apprentice or a mate the mate got paid better and didnt get college once a week both wound up as plumbers it just took the mate longer some got to 30 before being made up a few stayed as mates all there lives
the big companies like mathew hall and costains had hundreds of apprentices and mates but mechanisation on sites meant less labour was needed to manhandle materials around and matierials got lighter almost no cast iron on jobs now
baths drains soil
very little lead work, just carrying in the pigs of lead for a few soil stacks was a morning work for a mate
when i started in this game you either became an apprentice or a mate the mate got paid better and didnt get college once a week both wound up as plumbers it just took the mate longer some got to 30 before being made up a few stayed as mates all there lives
the big companies like mathew hall and costains had hundreds of apprentices and mates but mechanisation on sites meant less labour was needed to manhandle materials around and matierials got lighter almost no cast iron on jobs now
baths drains soil
very little lead work, just carrying in the pigs of lead for a few soil stacks was a morning work for a mate
- Messages
- 7,703
Theirs a plumber shortage where i am at the moment none of us are over 6ft !!!
- Messages
- 10,604
rambling now, you dont realise how the need for labour has decreased i watched a bit of video recently which showed meat porters in smithfield loading halves of beef on to a lorry there were six men two at the market to lift the side onto one blokes shoulder and two at the lorry lifting it of the shoulder and into the lorry there were two doing the carrying walking part now one bloke on a forklift can do it in half the time
even as late as the mid seventies i was driving a lorry carrying print and some of the smaller print finishers had no fork lift when there was a lorry to unload everyone stopped work to hand borne it of
even as late as the mid seventies i was driving a lorry carrying print and some of the smaller print finishers had no fork lift when there was a lorry to unload everyone stopped work to hand borne it of
R
Ray Stafford
- Messages
- 2,117
Ewa Bielicka of Reading said: “I love new father and mother very much for the opportunity they have given me to live here and work at Caffe Nero.
“English babies lazy.”
Nyce
Attachments
- Messages
- 808
Ive got a polish lodger. His mate wants to move into the house in April.
Reckons he can earn 4times as much in 'UK'
Other than his lodge he doesnt spend a penny. Not seen him eat for 3month...!
Reckons he can earn 4times as much in 'UK'
Other than his lodge he doesnt spend a penny. Not seen him eat for 3month...!
- Status
Similar plumbing topics
Oh dear, welcome to the forum, I will move...
- woodspiral
- Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board
- 1
- 1K
- Latest:
- Lou
I feel for you, it's a bad position to be in...
- BloodyBoiling
- Boilers
- 18
- 2K
- Latest:
- Last Plumber
- Question
Why don't you find out when the system was...
- tobiasuk
- UK Plumbers Forums
- 15
- 3K
- Latest:
- oz-plumber
did you ever figure it out btw
- Jayp07
- Gas Engineers Forum
- 12
- 1K
- Latest:
- BenCos18
