M
Maitri
Hi I have a bit of a contd saga and I am very appreciative of the help I have been offered on this forum. I live in a new build 2 1/2 years old plumbing across the estate has been a disaster. Builder had to re-plumb the first house sold on the estate because there was a leak that his new plumber (old plumber left the job in the middle of the build because he hadn't been paid he cut radiators off walls etc), said he couldn't find therefore it was "cheaper and easier to re-plumb" !! As we all have the same plumbing / heating this is, to say the least, somewhat worrying especially when we have all had endless plumbing /heating problems. Anyway my question is, I have been told that the system was never pressure tested before it was hooked up to the supply and the ceilings and floors were already finished !! When the system (that is across the estate) was hooked up it leaked like a sieve. Having pushed the NHBC hard they have agreed to come in and pressure test the central heating (not the plumbing as a whole). They have told the builder to fix leaks in radiators and then get a 'specialist' in to pressure test the heating system. My questions are:
1. what is defined as a 'specialist' in relation to pressure testing ?
2. what will this prove? The house that was re-plumbed was losing pressure in their boiler and the plumber could not track a leak. We have Chinese Ginde Pert-al-Pert pipe (plastic /aluminium / plastic) can this pipe drip from any joint below floor level without ever really showing any signs of leaking beyond boiler pressure dropping? There is no access to joints and builders new plumber said he had no idea where the joints were and couldn't even make sense of the way the pipes run which it why it was easier to re-plumb. I guess what I am trying to say is that if a pressure test was done, unless there was a very obvious BURST could the pressure test cause a leak that wouldn't be detectable immediately ? I am also worried about pipes bursting, is that a possibility, fittings flying off etc ? I wonder who would then be liable for the repair, I have oak floors fitted.
3. The builder now has to try and repair leaking radiators but how? Last year he attemped to repair leaks (the Ginde pipe below floor level is connected to the radiators using Ginde pipe not copper). We know the plumber pulled up excess pipe last year and attempted to re-fit, but the radiatores are leaking again. The radiators where he could not pull up pipe he fitted 3 different bits of pipe including a bit of copper (I'll try to attach pics) and it looks REALLY REALLY ugly. So what are the builders/plumbers options in repairing the radiators?
4. how much more work would it be for the 'specialist' to pressure test the plumbing whilst he is here? Again what happens if there are leaks and the joints below floor level are not accessible or even traceable!?
5. When Wessex Water called they said that WRAS Regulations state that all joints below floor level should be accessible and spoke about 'manifolds'. Obviously the joints not being accessible led to the builder having to re-plumb the property (obviously something everyone on the estate is not happy about having to accept responsiblity for), have we got a case against the builder if joints are not accessible? Our insurer Domestic & General said they would not offer insurance on plumbing that is not easily accessible.
6. Part of my contd saga relates to a boiler that D&G refused to repair and told me to return to the builder, as they believed it had not been commissioned from new as the hot water heat exchange was full of swarf and sludge. The boiler was just over 2 years old at the time. Is it possible for a 2 year old boiler to contd to work that long if it had not been commissioned from new? If the problem was not due to lack of commissioning then what else could have caused the swarf and sludge build up in a NEW system in a new build in 2 years? (No Benchmark but we are 2nd buyers. However, at least 3 other people (1st buyers) on the estate haven't got Benchmark Certificates)
7. can the repairs to the leaking radiators and the pressure test be carried out when the boiler is not working? Would the 'specialist' called to pressure test the heating system be qualified to check the contents of the main heat exchange and offer an opinion on the likely cause of the swarf and sludge? I assume if the hot water heat exchange was "chock-a-block with swarf and sludge" according to D&G's engineer the main heat exchange will be also? How difficult is it to get the main heat exchange out?
Sorry a lot of Q's but I am trying to work out what to do next thanks
(Re picture of the dripping pipe under the bath. This was the 3rd leak we have had in this bathroom (leaks in others too), this pipe dripped 2 1/2 litres of water a day for weeks and then just stopped. Any ideas why that would have happened. Clearly plumbing not right but why would it leak for weeks and then stop? And another Q I was going to ask. Shortly after D&G engineer had been boiler started to leak water all over the kitchen side. Boiler leaked for about a week then presumably it was empty. (We have not had hot water or heating since January ). Could the boiler have been damaged / rusted just sitting there all this time? Thanks)
1. what is defined as a 'specialist' in relation to pressure testing ?
2. what will this prove? The house that was re-plumbed was losing pressure in their boiler and the plumber could not track a leak. We have Chinese Ginde Pert-al-Pert pipe (plastic /aluminium / plastic) can this pipe drip from any joint below floor level without ever really showing any signs of leaking beyond boiler pressure dropping? There is no access to joints and builders new plumber said he had no idea where the joints were and couldn't even make sense of the way the pipes run which it why it was easier to re-plumb. I guess what I am trying to say is that if a pressure test was done, unless there was a very obvious BURST could the pressure test cause a leak that wouldn't be detectable immediately ? I am also worried about pipes bursting, is that a possibility, fittings flying off etc ? I wonder who would then be liable for the repair, I have oak floors fitted.
3. The builder now has to try and repair leaking radiators but how? Last year he attemped to repair leaks (the Ginde pipe below floor level is connected to the radiators using Ginde pipe not copper). We know the plumber pulled up excess pipe last year and attempted to re-fit, but the radiatores are leaking again. The radiators where he could not pull up pipe he fitted 3 different bits of pipe including a bit of copper (I'll try to attach pics) and it looks REALLY REALLY ugly. So what are the builders/plumbers options in repairing the radiators?
4. how much more work would it be for the 'specialist' to pressure test the plumbing whilst he is here? Again what happens if there are leaks and the joints below floor level are not accessible or even traceable!?
5. When Wessex Water called they said that WRAS Regulations state that all joints below floor level should be accessible and spoke about 'manifolds'. Obviously the joints not being accessible led to the builder having to re-plumb the property (obviously something everyone on the estate is not happy about having to accept responsiblity for), have we got a case against the builder if joints are not accessible? Our insurer Domestic & General said they would not offer insurance on plumbing that is not easily accessible.
6. Part of my contd saga relates to a boiler that D&G refused to repair and told me to return to the builder, as they believed it had not been commissioned from new as the hot water heat exchange was full of swarf and sludge. The boiler was just over 2 years old at the time. Is it possible for a 2 year old boiler to contd to work that long if it had not been commissioned from new? If the problem was not due to lack of commissioning then what else could have caused the swarf and sludge build up in a NEW system in a new build in 2 years? (No Benchmark but we are 2nd buyers. However, at least 3 other people (1st buyers) on the estate haven't got Benchmark Certificates)
7. can the repairs to the leaking radiators and the pressure test be carried out when the boiler is not working? Would the 'specialist' called to pressure test the heating system be qualified to check the contents of the main heat exchange and offer an opinion on the likely cause of the swarf and sludge? I assume if the hot water heat exchange was "chock-a-block with swarf and sludge" according to D&G's engineer the main heat exchange will be also? How difficult is it to get the main heat exchange out?
Sorry a lot of Q's but I am trying to work out what to do next thanks
(Re picture of the dripping pipe under the bath. This was the 3rd leak we have had in this bathroom (leaks in others too), this pipe dripped 2 1/2 litres of water a day for weeks and then just stopped. Any ideas why that would have happened. Clearly plumbing not right but why would it leak for weeks and then stop? And another Q I was going to ask. Shortly after D&G engineer had been boiler started to leak water all over the kitchen side. Boiler leaked for about a week then presumably it was empty. (We have not had hot water or heating since January ). Could the boiler have been damaged / rusted just sitting there all this time? Thanks)
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