prices - do you have set prices in your head?

[moony]

say if someone phones you up and asks you to fit a toilet, or bath or straight swap bathroom as a foreigner do you have set prices in your head - i changed a rad pretty much straight swap (i dont do many foreigners at the moment as im in a full time job and dont want the extra hours all the tiime) i just said forty quid - he was oh thats cheap? makes me think i could of charged more - obviously i was happy and he was happy so its all good but makes me think about other jobs on what would be the norm...

I've always gone for forty quid as a number regardless of whether it takes me half hour or 2 hours.

i could easily put a bath in in 2 hours but that would be cheap to a customer. just made me think.

Not really talking about business charges here just foreigners for someone already employed and working at night etc.

 

[Puddle]

I will tell you what I think q-plumbI hope you go into work tomorrow and they hand you your p 45,you will stand there,open mouthed and say why and then start to wee yourself when you realise you are on the dole,with not much chance of a job for a long while
Why,because your company are unable to get enough work to keep you going because silly blonkers like you are doing cheap jobs at week ends and evenings

Your boss was probably round a wc replacement or bathroom swap to night,in his own time,quoting min price just to keep you plunkers in work and lost out ,cos you are doing it at the weekend for £100
and if it is not you getting made redundant tomorrow because of your actions but another plumber ,do you just think ,what the hell
I am alright jack
Best of luck to you.....not

 

[REDSAW]

say if someone phones you up and asks you to fit a toilet, or bath or straight swap bathroom as a foreigner do you have set prices in your head - i changed a rad pretty much straight swap (i dont do many foreigners at the moment as im in a full time job and dont want the extra hours all the tiime) i just said forty quid - he was oh thats cheap? makes me think i could of charged more - obviously i was happy and he was happy so its all good but makes me think about other jobs on what would be the norm...

I've always gone for forty quid as a number regardless of whether it takes me half hour or 2 hours.

i could easily put a bath in in 2 hours but that would be cheap to a customer. just made me think.

Not really talking about business charges here just foreigners for someone already employed and working at night etc.

gotcha

did you declare this then?.
like to see the bath after 2 hours

 

[radswilldo]

Release the hounds

 

[Hugh]

Tut tut

 

[david williams]

this is what you are up against when you run your buisiness properly ,ten week plumbers ,those on the lump,the anyone can be a plumber brigade,but of course those of us who do run our buisiness properly !! well we just overcharge!!we need proper registration for plumbers and we need it now.as for the training companies well i have had 3 applications from newly trained plumbers this week,1 would not do any solder work he did not feel up to it,the other 2 did not know enougth to be considerd as plumbers mates.puddle has hit the nail right on the head.

 

[secret squirrel]

I wasn't going to reply but I can't help it. There's a postman in my area who does a "bit of plumbing" .

qplumb, to be blunt, you've got no idea. So, to be polite here's a bit of a list to change an inlet valve on a toilet (my costs involved):

1. torbeck (or similar) fitting
2. possible iso valve.
3. Possible tap connector/copper tube/flexi
4. 30 minutes to get there.
5. Van maintenace
6. Diesel
7. Road tax
8. Insurance for van
9. public liability insurance (do you have this?)
10. Income tax
11. National insurance
12. Pension payment/medical ins?
13. Accountants fee.

ANYTHING I've missed?

This doesn't take into account trips to and from the suppliers to make sure you have the fittings on the van etc.

Hope this enlightens you to some of the costs.......

So, its not that customers are being ripped off our costs are high.

 

[Smcart5]

What do you expect as enough basic knowledge to be a plumber's mate david?, i took the advice of an earlier poster directed at me and i halted thinking about setting up on my own and have put adverts for an apprenticeship/plumber's mate in all the local trade suppliers i know of and i am wondering whats the standard.

I finished the level 2 tech cert and that's hopefully enough.

Sorry if its off topic but not much point in starting another thread.

 

[secret squirrel]

Smcart5,

There's always a need to start a new thread, I am trying to be impartial here, as a fast track plumber and setting up my own business. And writing this just before I start another bl*&^y toilet.

In some ways I agree with David, reading posts from the older guys it must seem a world apart from what they used to do. Some of the lead pipe and copper wastes appear to be a work of art more than plumbing. Sawdust used as insulation around galvanised tanks must have taken an age to do.

I had to replace a lovely piece of copper waste that looked extremely difficult to bend with a piece of plastic waste 2 bends and solvent..... if the old (very old) plumber saw what I had done he'd be horrified but thats modern pipes etc.

Mention plastic to some of the older guys and you'll get "tut, tut" from here until christmas next year. However, times move on, plastic pipe is here etc etc. As for plumbing no longer being a trade I don't agree. There is still an awful lot of technical stuff to learn, problems to solve and a level of understanding that is beyond the diyer who goes to B & Q.

Reading this forum is testatment to that "I'm a keen diyer and have fitted my 3 port thingy onto 2 ports and one flow and its not working" "can I fit a 13 amp plug to my 9.5 kw shower, if not can I connect up to the cooker fuse in the fuse box"

Just looking inside an airing cupboard at all the add ons people have done over time and working it out takes an hour. Yes, anyone can go to a shed buy a bath and install it, get it in without 4 tubes of sealant to stop it leaking thats a different matter. Hiding the pipe work, making sure it all works, again more of a problem.

I got called out the other Sunday because a keen diyer who tried to repair a toilet got stuck when his hammer and saw weren't doing the job! (no exaggeration)

I think that the quick courses give you an understanding of the systems but don't equip us with all the knowledge we need.

Take a 17 year old whose past his driving test........ has the knowledge to pass his test and the skill required but no real driving ability hence 1 in 4 accidents involves someone under 25 and they make up a very small % of drivers.

So, in conclusion, before I try and repair another syphon! I used to get upset by people (david) moaning about fast trackers but now I expect it and get disappointed if I don't see it but look for the useful gems of info.

 

[dontknowitall]

If someone phones me up and the first question is "How much ...?" I know that I'm either going to be too expensive (even though I'm one of the cheapest in the area) or I won't want to do the job anyway because I expect to hit too many problems.

I had a person a few months ago who asked how much I'd charge to fix a leaking radiator. I said if it was just tightening a nut then £10, or else ... she cut me short and said that was too much!

 

[newbie1]

rad change 80-100 pounds dont drop below this for gods sake

 

[justlead1]

Hi. I think is a bit harsh and Dickensian to bad mouth the guy. Having been involved in the trade all my life, i could never have financed my bad habits without a bit of private and scrap metal. All the plumbing and heating companies i have seen grow over the last 40 odd years have been started by plumber who made the transition via private work. I do understand that thing ain't what they were 18 months ago, but the skills of a plumber are his/hers not the armchair plumber that employs them. Good Luck

 

[moony]

I will tell you what I think q-plumbI hope you go into work tomorrow and they hand you your p 45,you will stand there,open mouthed and say why and then start to wee yourself when you realise you are on the dole,with not much chance of a job for a long while
Why,because your company are unable to get enough work to keep you going because silly blonkers like you are doing cheap jobs at week ends and evenings

Your boss was probably round a wc replacement or bathroom swap to night,in his own time,quoting min price just to keep you plunkers in work and lost out ,cos you are doing it at the weekend for £100
and if it is not you getting made redundant tomorrow because of your actions but another plumber ,do you just think ,what the hell
I am alright jack
Best of luck to you.....not

right for a start - dont like your attitude - dont know who you think your speaking to, a bit of back ground knowledge about me - im currently 30 yrs age doing a apprenticeship yeah late i know but hey - just finshed my nvq level 2 after 2 yrs in college started my level 3 just now its in in heat and vent. I earn 165 a week as i dont get paid the day i go to college - that equates to 40 quid a day mate. so if i can do a rad change in 2 hours and get forty quid then thats good to me!

Secondly the forty quid stated would be for my labour, twenty a hour again pretty good this did not include materials which was bought by the bloke i dont it for.


Thirdly my boss has never discussed what he charges to me - he's always said work out how long it would take you and charge by the hour!

lastly my post was asking for advice. not a reply such as yours full of insults and assumptions

thanks though.

gotcha

did you declare this then?.
like to see the bath after 2 hours

mate i do bathrooms in work for a major bathroom supplier and out of box taps in waste in and bath levelled ready for tiler takes me 2 hours. just wanted some advice not a pis take

thanks though

 

[Phil]

What would you do though if you did cause damage to someones property?

I'm not saying you aren't compatent but we all make mistakes and without insurance its a big risk.

You need to charge the correct amount, undercharging means your price reflects your workmanship in some peoples eyes and think how gutted you would be if a ceiling was brought down on a £20 job.

 

[moony]

this is what you are up against when you run your buisiness properly ,ten week plumbers ,those on the lump,the anyone can be a plumber brigade,but of course those of us who do run our buisiness properly !! well we just overcharge!!we need proper registration for plumbers and we need it now.as for the training companies well i have had 3 applications from newly trained plumbers this week,1 would not do any solder work he did not feel up to it,the other 2 did not know enougth to be considerd as plumbers mates.puddle has hit the nail right on the head.

mate ive done a foreigner as an apprentice im in the middle of a 4 year course not a ten week plumber currently just started my level 3. put things in perspective i was wondering what to charge that was the point of my post.

so before puddles hits the nail on the head get the full story i asked for a bit of advice - what is this place ????????

I wasn't going to reply but I can't help it. There's a postman in my area who does a "bit of plumbing" .

qplumb, to be blunt, you've got no idea. So, to be polite here's a bit of a list to change an inlet valve on a toilet (my costs involved):

1. torbeck (or similar) fitting
2. possible iso valve.
3. Possible tap connector/copper tube/flexi
4. 30 minutes to get there.
5. Van maintenace
6. Diesel
7. Road tax
8. Insurance for van
9. public liability insurance (do you have this?)
10. Income tax
11. National insurance
12. Pension payment/medical ins?
13. Accountants fee.

ANYTHING I've missed?

This doesn't take into account trips to and from the suppliers to make sure you have the fittings on the van etc.

Hope this enlightens you to some of the costs.......

So, its not that customers are being ripped off our costs are high.

again read my replys im in middle of a four year apprenticeship im neither a postman or a office worker - nvq 2 qualified and currently level 3 another year or so before i finish that - it was a foreigner as im on apprentice wage at 30 yrs of age its been a struggle but ive worked bloody hard to do this properly and dont apprecite the attitude at all!

What would you do though if you did cause damage to someones property?

I'm not saying you aren't compatent but we all make mistakes and without insurance its a big risk.

You need to charge the correct amount, undercharging means your price reflects your workmanship in some peoples eyes and think how gutted you would be if a ceiling was brought down on a £20 job.

phil this is the whole point i know i can do rad change ive been doing the job for 2 years. ive done full heatings, full bathrooms the lot ten times over. The point was ive never spoken about how much to charge im on forty quid a day til me apprenticeship finishes or he gives me a pay rise - everything has been done the proper way and to be honest with 2 kids and a child on the way its bloody hard work!!!!! The whole point of this post was i dont do many foreigners dont know what to charge but as this job took me 2 hours i charged twenty a hour - no materials he said this was cheap - i said i could put a bath in in 2 hours but forty would be too cheap so what would others charge i did say in first post that this was not business just foreigners

and anyone on here who says that they didnt do foreingers as an apprentice is talking crap!

and this job was for the electrician who works on our jobs - sub contracts so to speak - i dont advertise or put my number about -

honest to god - you lot need to get off my back.

rad change 80-100 pounds dont drop below this for gods sake

cheers newbie - only bit of advice that i asked for on the whole thread

appreciated.

 

[quality]

I hope you all who slated him - feel not so good ,this lad is do his very best, and better than most it seems ---- I have said before this forum is very clicky no ofence to none

 

[radswilldo]

This forum is not clicky, the thread starter was shown disgust and rightly so. I've been in the trade 9 years, went done my training no different from him. Q-plumb has come on here mentioning to tradesmen that he is making a mockery of established price structure for cash in hand, bare in mind he does not have personal responsibillity or running costs as does not run a business. You will create all your own problems.

 

[moony]

I hope you all who slated him - feel not so good ,this lad is do his very best, and better than most it seems ---- I have said before this forum is very clicky no ofence to none

thanks quality means a lot - yeah it has been hard but obviously i done my research and as i had worked away i had some savings so went into the apprenticeship with some cushioning behind me, but that has long gone running a house and kids hasnt been easy and believe it or not has caused some rifts at home with money worrys and classes with 17 yr olds are not much fun either but im glad ive done it. the reason i got the job as apprentice as my boss lost his license and as he wanted someone over the age of 25 i fitted the bill, hes put me through my apprentice and even though hes got his licence back now has kept me on And things are going well.

cheers again

This forum is not clicky, the thread starter was shown disgust and rightly so. I've been in the trade 9 years, went done my training no different from him. Q-plumb has come on here mentioning to tradesmen that he is making a mockery of established price structure for cash in hand, bare in mind he does not have personal responsibillity or running costs as does not run a business. You will create all your own problems.

radswilldo

so you never done a foreigner when you were serving your time? - and when you did - you were on so little money that charging hundred quid for 2 hours work seemed so much to ask for someone who is still effectively training, like i said it was for the spark who does our jobs, i charged him twenty quid a hour i was there 2 hours (quite a bit of it chatting) he commented it was cheap so i was asking what others charged on here, so if you feel i was quite rightly spoken to the way i was can you please explain.

Q-plumb has come on here mentioning to tradesmen that he is making a mockery of established price structure for cash in hand, bare in mind he does not have personal responsibillity or running costs as does not run a business. You will create all your own problems.

oh my god how have i made a mockery ? have you read all my posts ? it was a foreigner. i charged twenty a hour there was no materials, twenty a hour is pretty good for someone who has no outgoings. Jesus - any plumber on here who says they have not done a job while serving there time is lying, i have my tools to get together i have kids to feed and a house to run - all whilst trying to get through this apprenticeship - cant do right for doing wrong with you people - what should i do a 20 week course start me own business and mess that up ?

or struggle through this on 165 a week! get offered jobs and not take them cos the plumber down the road whose got a four bedroom house brand new car may want a bloody rad change - get real!

 

[radswilldo]

Unlike you, Tom, Dick and Harry, I dont have illusions about the plumbing industry. Please, save the waffle of hard time kids etc, wait untill you start your on business. How do people like you have the front to moan about not earning enough being an apprentice, thats what being an apprentice entails, you should of thought about it beforehand and done something else. Your coment about 4 bedroom house says everything about your mentality, you believed the hype but found the reality different and are now bitter, making a big thing about 2 years, priceless. That plumber who lives the nice life has done his years with all it entails for that. Go and do something else

 

[moony]

Unlike you, Tom, Dick and Harry, I dont have illusions about the plumbing industry. Please, save the waffle of hard time kids etc, wait untill you start your on business. How do people like you have the front to moan about not earning enough being an apprentice, thats what being an apprentice entails, you should of thought about it beforehand and done something else. Your coment about 4 bedroom house says everything about your mentality, you believed the hype but found the reality different and are now bitter, making a big thing about 2 years, priceless. That plumber who lives the nice life has done his years with all it entails for that. Go and do something else

whatever mate, i was making the point im on **** money was offered to do a rad change as a foreigner i done it he said i could of had more. go do something else? ive just done 2 years in college, another 1-2 left. Im not moaning about not earning enough im saying if im offered a foreigner im gonna do it as im on **** money (not for an apprentice justy for someone with kids and a house but it was decision i made ok and ive done pretty well so get off my back)! as for the comment bout 4 bed house and nice car was talking bout my boss actually - told him bout this as well he cant belive the attitude of people on here, he said i should of charged 80 as a foreigner as thats what he would of charged if it was a cash job not going throuh his books. hes been in the business 20 yrs. yeah im on **** money but ive worked hard to get where i am now and for you to tell me to do something else is just pure stupidity mate. I asked a simple question i priced a job and pricing is new to me the customer said it was cheap and i was wondering if people had a set price in mind for certain jobs not all this ok! and spent most of the last couple of hours trying to defend myself.
and for you to say
..........
go and do something else lol

 

[A1P]

I am somewhere in the middle on this post.Cheap prices for 'foreigners' can undermine prices for the self employed plumber who has all the overheads.However in your situation where you are working your way through qualification in the best way it can be done these days,you are going to be a long time on a relatively low wage with your family committments.Money worries damage families.If I am honest ,in your situation I would be tempted to earn a bit extra.I would charge possibly a more realistic rate but in the end it is your labour.I guess it has always happened whatever anyone feels about it.At least your experience should ensure a decent job.Your lack of insurance is an issue but you couldnt obtain it anyway.Just dont over do it, as it it will pee people off ,possibly your own boss.Friends and family would be good.By the way i have heard that on odd occasions ,like a sunday afternoon call out to a DIYer who has put a nail thru a pipe,the £50-60 callout paid in cash has somehow escaped the books!!!! Surely not.

 

[radswilldo]

Oh your boss, how stupid of me(your someone also become the spark you work with), no its pretty clear, why else mention that like you did, plus how much you earn. you've been giving your responses regardless.

 

[moony]

thanks a1p for the sensible reply - to be honest im looking at it from an apprentisces point of view and not a business owner - my boss is great with me and has even give me a couple of jobs tap washers ball valves etc etc to build up my confidence i suppose when i started out, i done my mums bathroom and my mates, a rad change, and thats it over 2 years. like i said with kids i dont get too much time but the extra money does help. thanks for the reply it makes sense - i do see it from a business owners point of view though. but to be honest im not advertising my services and have done 5 jobs or so over 2 yrs, the spark asked my boss he said we were too busy and the spark then asked me if i wanted to do it in my spare time, bear in mind it was leaking a little and needed doing. This thread started with me wondering about prices as ive never really discussed with my boss as thought it wasnt my place to ask how much he earns, so thought a message board would be a friendlier place to ask how wring was i haha.

Oh your boss, how stupid of me(your someone also become the spark you work with), no its pretty clear, why else mention that like you did, plus how much you earn. you've been giving your responses regardless.

oh my gods i left a questionj last night and i come home from work to find all them replys what is this??? youve dug an dug at me, whats your problem???? i said plumber down the road with 4 bed and nice car. me boss has a 4 bed and nice car it was just metophorically speaking - ffs - is this a joke or is this what this place is like ????? yeah the job was for the spark who does our electrics, i dint think to mention it at first as it wasnt relevant but as you all jumped on me and not even attempt to answer the question i defended myself against your outbursts.

ffs grow up.

 

[radswilldo]

No problem just irriatation. In the future, baring in mind the great pains gone through declaring what you earn, when extra work comes up, charge near what the rest of the trade charges (which you know), your life as an apprentice with family should be made that bit easier. Working for 165 a week then doing a few hours on a day off for £40.00 is not going to really help a man with family in tow. More than strange

 

[A1P]

You did cop a bit of flack but this is unusual.For whatever reason you struck a nerve or two.The forum is excellent for info given freely in a friendly manner,even to DIYers.Dont despair of it, you will find it useful.You are doing the best for your family.Anyone sat in a class of 17 year olds deserves to be cut a bit of slack!!Good luck with your qualifications.