prices - do you have set prices in your head?

[Mushybees]

If your apprenticeship is all above board q-plumb you should have been on minimum wage after your first year.

 

[moony]

No problem just irriatation. In the future, baring in mind the great pains gone through declaring what you earn, when extra work comes up, charge near what the rest of the trade charges (which you know), your life as an apprentice with family should be made that bit easier. Working for 165 a week then doing a few hours on a day off for £40.00 is not going to really help a man with family in tow. More than strange

rads thast what the first post was about mate - i cant be bothered going thru it all again but he was shocked when i asked for forty so was wondering what the rest of you charge id heard of people chargin twenty a hour so charged that, ive never asked my boss as it wasnt my place so thought id ask on here. wish i hadnt bothered to be honest. thought it would be a helpful place.

some people have helped and thanks a lot to them though

If your apprenticeship is all above board q-plumb you should have been on minimum wage after your first year.

yep mate 8 hours a day, 32 hours a week 5.80, im happy with it, its give me a great opportunity to do things the correct way - like i said i dont get paid for the day im in college like some others would. To be honest if im offered any work in future i will not be broadcasting it on here. Didnt think id get this reaction and sorry if it offended.

You did cop a bit of flack but this is unusual.For whatever reason you struck a nerve or two.The forum is excellent for info given freely in a friendly manner,even to DIYers.Dont despair of it, you will find it useful.You are doing the best for your family.Anyone sat in a class of 17 year olds deserves to be cut a bit of slack!!Good luck with your qualifications.

thanks a lot a1p - its appreciated mate. i will stick around but will be inclined to take more of a back seat i think.

thanks

 

[GreenArmy]

q-plumb, do what you need to support your kids. The pricing side of things will come with experience. To be fair if your doing a foreigner for someone that knows its a foreigner then they are expecting it cheaper than normal and if they are happy and your happy, no problem.
I dont think this forum is 'clicky' but pricing is rarely talked about here, to which i understand.

 

[moony]

q-plumb, do what you need to support your kids. The pricing side of things will come with experience. To be fair if your doing a foreigner for someone that knows its a foreigner then they are expecting it cheaper than normal and if they are happy and your happy, no problem.
I dont think this forum is 'clicky' but pricing is rarely talked about here, to which i understand.

no probs mate i understand that now - will not be mentioned again haha. thanks for the curtious reply - appreciated mate.

 

[bri-w]

Going by what youve said, i cant see an issue. The sparky knew full well your price was too cheap, but he also knows your practising on his house. He probably wouldnt pay the going rate anyway and wouldve diy'd it. The issue for me would be if your going out touting for business filling all your spare time with foreigners at way lower rates than the local tradesmen then your going to get peoples backs up, youll more than likely come accross it yourself at some point. I say carry on what your doing but keep it within friends and family.

Good luck
Bri

 

[moony]

Going by what youve said, i cant see an issue. The sparky knew full well your price was too cheap, but he also knows your practising on his house. He probably wouldnt pay the going rate anyway and wouldve diy'd it. The issue for me would be if your going out touting for business filling all your spare time with foreigners at way lower rates than the local tradesmen then your going to get peoples backs up, youll more than likely come accross it yourself at some point. I say carry on what your doing but keep it within friends and family.

Good luck
Bri

exactly bri - i honestly didnt know what to charge, he had bought the rad and valves, ive done it loads of times in work over the last 2 years it took me just over a hour cup of tea and talking bout other jobs we were working on (thru my boss) and i was there 2 hours - i just said forty quid and he commented it was cheap - just got me wondering to what i could of got away with really lol, the reason for my post, to see if anyone had set prices for certain things as long as they go straight in (like this job did) i wouldnt go to do a job for someone i didnt know, and my number is definatley not touted about.

Ive had one reply on here saying that "i dont know nothing", when ive looked back at his posts he wont touch gas has no intention of doing so and done a fast track course in feb. A bit harsh considering my level 2 is finished started level 3 in sept i can fault find on boilers i use multimeters - install full systems and have worked on plenty of gas jobs (all with my bosses supervision of course) i suppose with coming into this at 28 i was more equiped to take things on board than the average 16 yr old. i'm now 30 and thought things have gone well and count myself lucky (only to be told by someone to choose something else lol ) I have been shocked by some replys but i have always appreciated the sensible and pro-active replys thanks.

 

[Mushybees]

Sorry mate, thought you said £40 a week!

Don't charge too little, it's a bad habit to get into which will cause you to undersell yourself when/if you go self employed.
Everyone does or has done a bit of work off the books. What's happened here is hypocrisy and peer pressure in equal measure.

 

[moony]

Sorry mate, thought you said £40 a week!

Don't charge too little, it's a bad habit to get into which will cause you to undersell yourself when/if you go self employed.
Everyone does or has done a bit of work off the books. What's happened here is hypocrisy and peer pressure in equal measure.

cheers, mate means a lot to get a bit of support being a newbiee and all that- bit of a shock to the system that first page haha.

 

[johnmcginty]

I wasn't going to reply but I can't help it. There's a postman in my area who does a "bit of plumbing" .

qplumb, to be blunt, you've got no idea. So, to be polite here's a bit of a list to change an inlet valve on a toilet (my costs involved):

1. torbeck (or similar) fitting
2. possible iso valve.
3. Possible tap connector/copper tube/flexi
4. 30 minutes to get there.
5. Van maintenace
6. Diesel
7. Road tax
8. Insurance for van
9. public liability insurance (do you have this?)
10. Income tax
11. National insurance
12. Pension payment/medical ins?
13. Accountants fee.

ANYTHING I've missed?

This doesn't take into account trips to and from the suppliers to make sure you have the fittings on the van etc.

Hope this enlightens you to some of the costs.......

So, its not that customers are being ripped off our costs are high.

Ey up Squirrel , you missed advertising !!

 

[patricklondon]

wow. im amazed at the level of anger targetted at a man trying to do the right thing and improve his lot for himself and his family. i hope i never have to defend myself in such a way when looking for a little advice.
so rads always been perfect? or do you just need a cuddle?
q-plumb dont let a few miseries dishearten you i'm sure there are plenty of more reasonable folk on here who are willing to share advice, information and experience. isn't that the point? maybe i'm naive too.

 

[newbie1]

the whole point is not whether you do foreigners or not just dont do them at ridiculous prices that then drives down the rates that should be charged as i said no rad should be swapped for less than 80.00 and thats a straight swap too

 

[w1nxn]

q-plumb, think u just asked the right question at the wrong time mate thats all.

theres been a build up of crazy questions on here from complete suicide merchants and its obvious its touched a nerve with a couple of the members and your post ended up tipping the apple cart so to speak. until you explained the whole situation i was on the same wave as 'rads'.

its amazing what a little diplomacy can achieve.

good luck to ya

 

[moony]

wow. im amazed at the level of anger targetted at a man trying to do the right thing and improve his lot for himself and his family. i hope i never have to defend myself in such a way when looking for a little advice.
so rads always been perfect? or do you just need a cuddle?
q-plumb dont let a few miseries dishearten you i'm sure there are plenty of more reasonable folk on here who are willing to share advice, information and experience. isn't that the point? maybe i'm naive too.

thanks patirck, i think the red mist decended amongst them a bit - and they missed the point of my first post - i didnt know what to charge as i have never priced a rad change i just went on twenty a hour which i thought was good for me - obviously now i know i can charge more (happy days) but i genuinely didnt know what to charge.

thanks for the kind words matey your a star.

q-plumb, think u just asked the right question at the wrong time mate thats all.

theres been a build up of crazy questions on here from complete suicide merchants and its obvious its touched a nerve with a couple of the members and your post ended up tipping the apple cart so to speak. until you explained the whole situation i was on the same wave as 'rads'.

its amazing what a little diplomacy can achieve.

good luck to ya

yeah i sort of got that impression myself, glad its been cleared up somewhat some of the blokes who ripped into me were the ones i was hoiping to learn a bit from but yeah im glad its got sort of cleared up as i would love to stick around and learn a bit from the wealth of knowledge here

cheers

thanks mate

 

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[stevetheplumber]

work cheap work hard is what i was told your making the mistake of charging what you need not what the jobs worth to the customer i can understand £40 is a lot of money compared to your wages but if you think that way your wages will always be small even for a forigher (that must be a northen term for a private as id never heard it till now )you should be thinking of £40 an hour
dont get me wrong im starving alive at the moment but cutting your rate to low creates a downwards spiral as we all tend to price the next job against the last one

 

[Puddle]

I responded to the first post and after re reading it I still am of the same opinion, as regarding answering that post, through q-plumbs replies, the goal posts have been moved about 30 ft
Q plumb is not employed full time, is on minimum wage and doing his best
I respect his time and effort in his responses
This forum is not clicky at all, you will get alot of plain speaking and straight down the line advice and to be fair I based mine on the first post, not enough details were given; if more details had been given,probably a completely different set of responses would have been given
What I would say, as others have stated, do not under sell your self, I would have thought you have moved into plumbing to earn a decent wage to support your partner and two children,I mean three,could be twins maybe four ,not five surely,anyway, this will not be helped by badly under pricing
Imagine when you are up and running and you go round to a job give a quote and the customer says p~ss off, have bloke who will do it at the weekend for £40, do not think you will be to happy
I still maintain if you are correctly employed by a local plumbing company,earning a decent wage,privates,forieners , barrow jobs,whatever must be controlled to small works and the allowance of works discussed with the company, maybe not such a big issue in the bigger cities but in small towns ect it is

 

[moony]

I responded to the first post and after re reading it I still am of the same opinion, as regarding answering that post, through q-plumbs replies, the goal posts have been moved about 30 ft
Q plumb is not employed full time, is on minimum wage and doing his best
I respect his time and effort in his responses
This forum is not clicky at all, you will get alot of plain speaking and straight down the line advice and to be fair I based mine on the first post, not enough details were given; if more details had been given,probably a completely different set of responses would have been given
What I would say, as others have stated, do not under sell your self, I would have thought you have moved into plumbing to earn a decent wage to support your partner and two children,I mean three,could be twins maybe four ,not five surely,anyway, this will not be helped by badly under pricing
Imagine when you are up and running and you go round to a job give a quote and the customer says p~ss off, have bloke who will do it at the weekend for £40, do not think you will be to happy
I still maintain if you are correctly employed by a local plumbing company,earning a decent wage,privates,forieners , barrow jobs,whatever must be controlled to small works and the allowance of works discussed with the company, maybe not such a big issue in the bigger cities but in small towns ect it is

i understand what your saying puddle - i didnt think id have to go into too much detail to be fair - perhaps i should of done - if i knew what i knew now - i would of charged more - the point is i didnt and was asking advice as he said forty was cheap i did not expect that reply at the time thats why i come on here to ask the more experienced lads you included if youd mind telling me what the going rate was (perhaps i shouldnt of asked but this mindset by not asking my boss what he charged was what caused the naivity in pricing in the first place) i understand your view point totally and from a business owners point of view i can see why it would annoy you, but please if you re-read my first post i do make out that i dont do many jobs and thought it come across that i havent got a clue about what to charge and was asking for advice from people who knew what to charge.

thanks for the reply though. appreciated.

 

[REDSAW]

lets put my view straight,
firstly welcome to this forum,
i do like a good laugh.
however,
for a newbie to come on to a site without explaining their full time vocation and back ground to go and ask what you asked out right, was a little pretentious in my initial opinion, and thats all it was.
in my understanding you phrased it like, you are a bannana picker in the day, moonlighting in the evenings doing d.i.y plumbing for
unsusceptible members of the public with the premise of giving the plumbing industry a bad name. upon doing so, it gave me the impression of someone 'fishing' for knowledge on an open forum to the equivellance of ripping the skills of a professional plumbing buisness of their practice.

if you can comprehend my theory:-

how to earn ££££££££££££'s from plumbing,

1/ look at ways to make extra cash.
2/ earn back-handers tax free when not working.
3/ rip the knowledge and practices of plumbers from the internet.
4/ pose as a plumber using one-of adds.
= cowboy plumber.

it clinched it for me when you mentioned fitting a bath in 2 hours.
yes i can too and tile & seal it, but it wouldn't be my best work (4hr + norm), if you had said 1st fix bath then that would have been different. i have visited many homes with bath problems where they are leaking etc, to be told 'my brother or landlord fitted it' and yes, the state of workmanship is that i can do it to these standards in perhaps an hour.

there is countless jokers that post on this forum asking for 'strange advice' when it is clear 'fishing' tactics and that they are not in the best interest for 'genuine' reasons, the longer you are a member of this forum the more you see that are obvious.

however, in this case you seem genuine. we are not at work on here so when one takes the pss take it with a pinch of salt and learn to laugh or add extra information for the understanding of readers to your posts before you get the hump. then the advice will flood in.

friends?.

boy, did i know this thread would be a good un'
well done q-plumb.

 

[bri-w]

The guy did a job for someone he works with, he undercharged him, realised, then came here to ask what he should have charged, wrongly as it turns out.

q-plumb.....pm me if you need to price a job and your not sure, or perhaps redsaw might be a better source.....

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/general-off-topic-chat/5387-how-big-yours-hmmm.html

 

[REDSAW]

purple patch bri, purple patch

i did the same job last year for my gran for a tenner. thats my goin rate,
or £50 a day for close family, or £200 for-in-laws generally £30 ph is good for anyone-anywhere,.

 

[moony]

lets put my view straight,
firstly welcome to this forum,
i do like a good laugh.
however,
for a newbie to come on to a site without explaining their full time vocation and back ground to go and ask what you asked out right, was a little pretentious in my initial opinion, and thats all it was.
in my understanding you phrased it like, you are a bannana picker in the day, moonlighting in the evenings doing d.i.y plumbing for
unsusceptible members of the public with the premise of giving the plumbing industry a bad name. upon doing so, it gave me the impression of someone 'fishing' for knowledge on an open forum to the equivellance of ripping the skills of a professional plumbing buisness of their practice.

if you can comprehend my theory:-

how to earn ££££££££££££'s from plumbing,

1/ look at ways to make extra cash.
2/ earn back-handers tax free when not working.
3/ rip the knowledge and practices of plumbers from the internet.
4/ pose as a plumber using one-of adds.
= cowboy plumber.

it clinched it for me when you mentioned fitting a bath in 2 hours.
yes i can too and tile & seal it, but it wouldn't be my best work (4hr + norm), if you had said 1st fix bath then that would have been different. i have visited many homes with bath problems where they are leaking etc, to be told 'my brother or landlord fitted it' and yes, the state of workmanship is that i can do it to these standards in perhaps an hour.

there is countless jokers that post on this forum asking for 'strange advice' when it is clear 'fishing' tactics and that they are not in the best interest for 'genuine' reasons, the longer you are a member of this forum the more you see that are obvious.

however, in this case you seem genuine. we are not at work on here so when one takes the pss take it with a pinch of salt and learn to laugh or add extra information for the understanding of readers to your posts before you get the hump. then the advice will flood in.

friends?.

boy, did i know this thread would be a good un'
well done q-plumb.

hi mate i dont tile - so yeah it would be first fix, but if someone asked me to do the bath the bath would be in working sealed etc in 2 hours but i obviouosly know that people charge a lot more for that, thats the reason i asked

friends - of course mate, im not an obnoxioous twit haha, and i do understand some of you have businesses to run, but yeah i am genuine and a long way off starting a business lol, lets get this level 3 completed first then a few years on a full wage would be nice lol.

Cheers for the comments

The guy did a job for someone he works with, he undercharged him, realised, then came here to ask what he should have charged, wrongly as it turns out.

q-plumb.....pm me if you need to price a job and your not sure, or perhaps redsaw might be a better source.....

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/general-off-topic-chat/5387-how-big-yours-hmmm.html

cheers bri - you got it in one matey, thanks for the offer really appreciated.

 

[Winston]

Wow this thread has been a bit heated and if I may give my view even though I am a newby to the trade. I have received the odd call to a job and its been say for the elderly and a two minute job. How much have I charged? Nowt my reasoning is behind this is that I am genuinely honest. I have even refused to accept the tenner that they have offered me.

Some may not approve and some may mock, but it is my choice.

However it is essential that you as a individual truely value the skill and you workmanship and the service which you provide.

I have had a job every evening this week all small jobs toilet syphons, inlet valves, blocked toilets and so on. And even though I do not operate with a call out charge I need to make a living, and each of these jobs has been about £100.

I admire you for working and doing your training at your age and for the money you are paid, in fact I am jealous. I have spent all this week with three timed served gas engineers as they knew I was down in the dumbts from a recent possible claim from a cheating and fraudlent customer.

I have worked from 7.30 till 3 and not for a single penny, what have I got from it is priceless. I have learnt more this week than I have from my 10 week course. And from a year of trading on my own, and not only that I have worked along three superb guys and loved the banter.

All I can say regarding the £40 for the rad job it is far far to cheap and round my way it would be £200 + materials, but good luck. And this is the best forum I have seen regarding the passing of knowledge and support.

 

[helpsy]

Yes Winston, you're absolutely spot on, this is by a long way the best forum going.

 

[migoplumber]

of course its the best forum in the world, and a nice place to be

 

[Plouasne]

Unless its "jobbing" plumbing, where its a time and material basis, you really aught to have a time for each item of work, and cost it that way

Fixed overheads + all the other cost listed by other posters = annual costs divided by the hours you work in a year ( say 46 weeks a year working / 5 days a week / 8 hours a day; 40 hours a week x 46 = 1840 hours a year)

Say for example your fixed costs come to £8750 a year 8750 divided by 1840 = £ 4.76 an hour, and in what you want for a wage say £20/hour, for round figures call the all in sum £25, divide by 60 for minutes 0.4166p/min,

For example: running 15 mm copper tube clipped every metre = 5 mins/mtr; 5 x 4166 = £2.33p

15 mm soldered elbow = 7 min; 7 x 4166 = £2.9162

Make up a W/C (fitting syphon, ball valve, overflow connector and fitting to pan, fixing in place) no cold feed or overflow nor is the soil pipe = 1 hour = £25