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dontknowitall
Hmmm - somehow I just knew that I'd get flack for the post I made!
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- Thread starter james017
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Discuss Quick question to all plumber's mainly self employed in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at Plumbers Forums
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james017
I live in west london and i am 22yrs old, i just dont know where too look for someone to take me on as an apprentice and my local college is telling me apprentice's are being laid off as there is not enough work. Because i am 22yrs old i consider myself as still young and doing a apprenticeship for 3 years with a crappy wage would not effect me
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paulbrogden2007
about tony bryden from train for trade skills
hi i had 2.5 hours interview today from a college adviser a so called person who seemed very nice but at the end i realized he was a salesman turning up in a black audi wanting to discuss the plumbing course where he talked about the shortages being out their however i have a relative in the plumbing trade who says because the down turn plumbers are not needed as much as the gov, say. any way tony discussed my situation such as my debts too wanted to know about my work history the things i had done i live in batley but i found it a very intense interview at the end then he discussed the costs by the end i felt if i had the money would have signed up.... if its a scam i must say its a very good one. any way the costs involved was £3950 or 22.50 per week i think they offer you fianance for the coursethe domestic course part lasts for 1 year which involves 6 weeks practical the rest is theory and virtual relialty training on the computer... their after another year for nvq level 3 and gas training. the full training including the proffesional part costs £5700 and or £35 a week.
he was still insistant their is work out their and claimed after doing the first year... could work doing basic plumbing to pay for the course it is still a loan you have to pay it is quicker than college he claimed full training takes in all about 2-3 years he claimed.
but given what plumbers are saying as well as my relative it appears work is short so maybe becoming a plumber is not a good idea but he was insisting that you need qualifications in a set trade to make a good living and was banging on about this he was saying the evening welding course i was doing wont get me any where as its only a certificate it seems i wont be able to get a job at all based on what he saying very depressing he kept going on about how does it feel to be unemployed how depressed does it make you.. what do you people think? thanks for reading...
hi i had 2.5 hours interview today from a college adviser a so called person who seemed very nice but at the end i realized he was a salesman turning up in a black audi wanting to discuss the plumbing course where he talked about the shortages being out their however i have a relative in the plumbing trade who says because the down turn plumbers are not needed as much as the gov, say. any way tony discussed my situation such as my debts too wanted to know about my work history the things i had done i live in batley but i found it a very intense interview at the end then he discussed the costs by the end i felt if i had the money would have signed up.... if its a scam i must say its a very good one. any way the costs involved was £3950 or 22.50 per week i think they offer you fianance for the coursethe domestic course part lasts for 1 year which involves 6 weeks practical the rest is theory and virtual relialty training on the computer... their after another year for nvq level 3 and gas training. the full training including the proffesional part costs £5700 and or £35 a week.
he was still insistant their is work out their and claimed after doing the first year... could work doing basic plumbing to pay for the course it is still a loan you have to pay it is quicker than college he claimed full training takes in all about 2-3 years he claimed.
but given what plumbers are saying as well as my relative it appears work is short so maybe becoming a plumber is not a good idea but he was insisting that you need qualifications in a set trade to make a good living and was banging on about this he was saying the evening welding course i was doing wont get me any where as its only a certificate it seems i wont be able to get a job at all based on what he saying very depressing he kept going on about how does it feel to be unemployed how depressed does it make you.. what do you people think? thanks for reading...
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Mushybees
The fact that he stooped this low and became that personal speaks volumes about him in my opinion.
As for a certificate not leading to employment it's a funny thing to mention. One of the biggest complaints about these courses is that they provide the relevant qualifications but they are only pieces of paper. They mean nothing to an employer.
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alph250
James, i would search around the facilities management companies, buildings always require maintenance whatever the economic conditions.
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beaman
hi, i was reading through everyones comments on this subject and have no idea if any good can come from a "fast track" course. i am currently looking at doing a fast track for plumbing and gas. i have been in the construction industry for 14 years but have never gained any formal qualifications. reactfast training in the midlands are offering the plumbing and gas course for £8k which would be over 10mths. i run a small property maintenance company which i have run for 7yrs and have a nice little contract running and want to expand my services. my point would be do i take the course and do this work myself or sub it out? any comments would be very welcome.
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andekoch
different people pick up different things at different rates. so for some a fast track course will be far better than an apprenticeship.
at the end of that day the persons attitude and a god knowledge of their own limits are more important that what course they did.
I have seen apprenticed and many years of experienced plumbers notch out almost 50% of joists almost to run their pipes (not good and way off what the building regs will allow).
I guess I am saying do what suits you and how you learn best and then dont do jobs that you feel uncomfortable doing.
as an employer I want to see the qualification so that I know the person had some sort of commitment and ability to pass in a clasroom environment. The interview and the first few jobs are far more relevant to me though.
at the end of that day the persons attitude and a god knowledge of their own limits are more important that what course they did.
I have seen apprenticed and many years of experienced plumbers notch out almost 50% of joists almost to run their pipes (not good and way off what the building regs will allow).
I guess I am saying do what suits you and how you learn best and then dont do jobs that you feel uncomfortable doing.
as an employer I want to see the qualification so that I know the person had some sort of commitment and ability to pass in a clasroom environment. The interview and the first few jobs are far more relevant to me though.
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dontknowitall
Beaman ... if this helps ...
I did a fast track course at Reactfast but not the gas part. If I was to start again now I know a little (but not much) about plumbing qualifications, I'd ask them to clarify EXACTLY what the qualifications are.
I signed up being under the impression I'd end up with an NVQ but it was only a C&G which (with experience) leads to an NVQ - a very different matter. Mind you, I've still not much idea what advantage an NVQ gives you if you're self employed - or a C&G!
That said, I really enjoyed myself there and the tutors were very enthusiastic, knowledgable, funny and great fun. Would I go again? Definitely!
I did a fast track course at Reactfast but not the gas part. If I was to start again now I know a little (but not much) about plumbing qualifications, I'd ask them to clarify EXACTLY what the qualifications are.
I signed up being under the impression I'd end up with an NVQ but it was only a C&G which (with experience) leads to an NVQ - a very different matter. Mind you, I've still not much idea what advantage an NVQ gives you if you're self employed - or a C&G!
That said, I really enjoyed myself there and the tutors were very enthusiastic, knowledgable, funny and great fun. Would I go again? Definitely!
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HTB
As an ex-fast tracker with some knowledge and experience I am comfortable to say that I cannot reccommend the Reactfast model, for legal reasons I'll say no more, but regardless of their training make sure you are completely aware of the percentage of your income they will expect to take from you for providing work, you might also wish to ask how much work they guarantee to give you over the course of a year for what you pay them, and of course feel free to ask them how well they feel they performed during their trial with British Gas in providing plumbing call out services, be very careful, also consider taking advice from the British Franchise Association before buying any franchise model, and ask hard questions.
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dontknowitall
HTB - valuable comments.
To be clear, I'm not a Reactfast franchisee or whatever they're called - I went on a seven week fast track course to learn plumbing and it's in that respect for the course I was on, I enjoyed myself.
To be clear, I'm not a Reactfast franchisee or whatever they're called - I went on a seven week fast track course to learn plumbing and it's in that respect for the course I was on, I enjoyed myself.
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beaman
i was only looking at the training side at reactfast as i am selfemployed already so wouldnt want any franchise or work etc. going to see them 19th may to check them out. had a meeting with access2 tradecareers today (feedback required about this company please) there method of training seems quite good but they said they have retacted there gas training until further notice. (any feedback about this would also be helpful).
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HTB
I was a franchisee for over 4 years and by and large it was reasonably successful, I left the franchise because in the end I just couldn't get on with the guy who took over the business. Franchising is a workable method of getting into business (McDonalds being arguably the most successful, but for a more down to earth example look how well Chips Away have grown) but its not for everyone. Regarding Training Schools, I still think Building Services Training (BST) as they were, but are now known as The Connaught Academy, are excellent.
I'll admit I'm biased because I've done a lot of my training there and I still think they are hard to beat. I've been to about 4 other places for various reasons and none of the others were as good.
By the way, glad you enjoyed the course D K I I, hope your business is doing ok.
I'll admit I'm biased because I've done a lot of my training there and I still think they are hard to beat. I've been to about 4 other places for various reasons and none of the others were as good.
By the way, glad you enjoyed the course D K I I, hope your business is doing ok.
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paulbrogden2007
hi i had 2.5 hours interview today from a college adviser a so called person who seemed very nice but at the end i realized he was a salesman turning up in a black audi wanting to discuss the plumbing course where he talked about the shortages being out their however i have a relative in the plumbing trade who says because the down turn plumbers are not needed as much as the gov, say. any way tony discussed my situation such as my debts too wanted to know about my work history the things i had done i live in batley but i found it a very intense interview at the end then he discussed the costs by the end i felt if i had the money would have signed up.... if its a scam i must say its a very good one. any way the costs involved was £3950 or 22.50 per week i think they offer you fianance for the coursethe domestic course part lasts for 1 year which involves 6 weeks practical the rest is theory and virtual relialty training on the computer... their after another year for nvq level 3 and gas training. the full training including the proffesional part costs £5700 and or £35 a week.
he was still insistant their is work out their and claimed after doing the first year... could work doing basic plumbing to pay for the course it is still a loan you have to pay it is quicker than college he claimed full training takes in all about 2-3 years he claimed.
but given what plumbers are saying as well as my relative it appears work is short so maybe becoming a plumber is not a good idea but he was insisting that you need qualifications in a set trade to make a good living and was banging on about this he was saying the evening welding course i was doing wont get me any where as its only a certificate it seems i wont be able to get a job at all based on what he saying very depressing he kept going on about how does it feel to be unemployed how depressed does it make you.. what do you people think? thanks for reading...
he was still insistant their is work out their and claimed after doing the first year... could work doing basic plumbing to pay for the course it is still a loan you have to pay it is quicker than college he claimed full training takes in all about 2-3 years he claimed.
but given what plumbers are saying as well as my relative it appears work is short so maybe becoming a plumber is not a good idea but he was insisting that you need qualifications in a set trade to make a good living and was banging on about this he was saying the evening welding course i was doing wont get me any where as its only a certificate it seems i wont be able to get a job at all based on what he saying very depressing he kept going on about how does it feel to be unemployed how depressed does it make you.. what do you people think? thanks for reading...
M
martyn
Just one note..... do apprenticeships still exist In the real world that is! if you search for plumbing training there is no mention of an apprenticeship, I am an Electrician considering extra training should I do a second apprenticeship so I can make a few thousand more brew's? or should I use my extensive knowledge of the trade industry as a whole and "fast track" .
If everyone had to wait for an apprenticeship we really would be short of trades men, which is why we now have fast track.
So in summary If the older plumbers / Electricians had worked harder & smarter there would not have been the shortage in the first place.
If everyone had to wait for an apprenticeship we really would be short of trades men, which is why we now have fast track.
So in summary If the older plumbers / Electricians had worked harder & smarter there would not have been the shortage in the first place.
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PJE1098
To Martyn, Not all plumbers who are upset about this are old, for a start , they are just concerned about protecting their industry. Im afraid this so called fast track crap you speak of, is on its way to electrical trade aswell.. so we'll see how you like it ..when joe blogs starts claiming hes an electrician! \im sure your attitude will change then,,,
I have 2 apprentices..they never make tea and could put many trades men to shame they are well trained and good lads.. Apprentice ships are few n far between because of the cut throat attitude in the industry... mostly due to media hype & "quickies" flooding the market with an inferior and cheaper service.
I have 2 apprentices..they never make tea and could put many trades men to shame they are well trained and good lads.. Apprentice ships are few n far between because of the cut throat attitude in the industry... mostly due to media hype & "quickies" flooding the market with an inferior and cheaper service.
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HTB
Got some bad news for you PJE,, Eleclocal has been going for about 3 years now, a franchise made up of fast track electricians, some of them very good, others not so, as far as I know it has generally been a fairly successful way of getting into the trade, I also know that quite a few of them didn't make it.
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PJE1098
Awkwell, lifes a pig...I know 2 electricians in the past 2 weeks who have been made redundant....Good luck to them,,
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james017
I have an assessment day next week at my local college to see if they will take me as an apprentice and find me an employer as I have notified them I am a new starter to this, I am just worried now that they will not take me on due to my plumbing knowledge, just wondering if anyone can give me some advice on what to say and what kind of questions I should expect? Thanks
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alph250
If i were interviewing you i would start with why you want to enter this trade what have you done previously (to show intrest) any relevant knowledge, and MOST importantly judge your attitude in the sense of whether you'll be a good employee, turn up for work, present the company professionaly etc.
If your plumbing knowledge is limited or non- existant i would go and spend a few hours down B&Q looking and all the fittings, tools, radiators, boilers, etc as you'll pick up a bit about whats what.
Most importantly confidence, maturity and keeness are the 3 areas you want to push.
Also i wouldnt leave it to the college to find you work, get out there send some letter & CV's out.
Best of luck to you, and if you do get accepted then make sure you see the 4 years through as once you have the qualification you can always fall back on it, (and that comes from experiance!)
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arran123
are you saying there are no crap doctors? did harold shipman not pass the same exams as my local excellent gp.
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git
Im a supervisor for a mechanical company who do both plumbing and industrial pipefitting and we have employed blokes who have these qualifiactions only in the past but put them on a plumbers mates rate. Anyone who thinks that doing a course and then expecting to get a full plumbers rate is deluded. Its alright knowing how to change a tap but when its comes to site work that aint going to help you much.
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HTB
Arran 123, for your information, the legal method for measuring "negligence" in the performance of a skilled person carrying out their professional duties in relation to whether they were negligent or not, was for many years compared against the decision in "Bolitho" and that test case was recently superseded by "Bolam".
Both cases involved medical negligence (Doctors """""ing up) and the crazy thing is, exactly the same basic principles are applied to all incidents where negligence is alleged. So if a plumber screws up, and injury or loss arises as a consequence, you are looked at in exactly the same way as if a Surgeon screws up on an operating table. (trust me,,,,,I'm a plumber).
Both cases involved medical negligence (Doctors """""ing up) and the crazy thing is, exactly the same basic principles are applied to all incidents where negligence is alleged. So if a plumber screws up, and injury or loss arises as a consequence, you are looked at in exactly the same way as if a Surgeon screws up on an operating table. (trust me,,,,,I'm a plumber).
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heinz57
I finished my fast track plum course 3 months ago. Now I consider myself
an expert - no only joking. I have zero hours of experience in the field
and would not dare to undetake anything that i did not cover on the course.
Back in the good old days school leavers generally stuck to the first job
that came along. Nowadays its the norm for kids to have had more than half a
dozen different jobs by the time their 20 and still poppin zits on their
faces! There are a lot more choices for people and a lot of them want swanky
office jobs working on computers and university courses offer just about
any course you can think of.The fact is, the nobheads in charge of this
country dont really give any money towards companys for any kind of
apprenticeship training, this is madness. I looked into the apprentice root
but no one could afford to take me on! If however, youve been out of work
for six months or more the job centre will pay a potential employer £500 to
take you on (but you dont get paid other than your jsa). If youre still
there in 20 weeks or so they get another £500, i guess thats better than
nothing! The whole reason i did this course is to be able to say to an
employer, hey i got some basic creds, now giz-a-job as say a plumbers mate.
Any good firm will then be able to offer further knowledge and even training
and you develop from that point on. One thing i did strongly object to is
the advice that i got when i finished my course. The business advisor
basically turned around and said hey, youre all qualified now and i urge
you to go self-employed, what a load of rubbish, i mean 5 weeks practical
training just isnt enough unless you have a long background in
construction!! And as some of you have pointed out whether a fast tracker
or a time served apprentice (which would be the proper route if we had a
government who pulled their fingers out of their corrupt, theiving
arseholes), you get the good, the bad and ugly on both sides of the fence,
peace out!!!
an expert - no only joking. I have zero hours of experience in the field
and would not dare to undetake anything that i did not cover on the course.
Back in the good old days school leavers generally stuck to the first job
that came along. Nowadays its the norm for kids to have had more than half a
dozen different jobs by the time their 20 and still poppin zits on their
faces! There are a lot more choices for people and a lot of them want swanky
office jobs working on computers and university courses offer just about
any course you can think of.The fact is, the nobheads in charge of this
country dont really give any money towards companys for any kind of
apprenticeship training, this is madness. I looked into the apprentice root
but no one could afford to take me on! If however, youve been out of work
for six months or more the job centre will pay a potential employer £500 to
take you on (but you dont get paid other than your jsa). If youre still
there in 20 weeks or so they get another £500, i guess thats better than
nothing! The whole reason i did this course is to be able to say to an
employer, hey i got some basic creds, now giz-a-job as say a plumbers mate.
Any good firm will then be able to offer further knowledge and even training
and you develop from that point on. One thing i did strongly object to is
the advice that i got when i finished my course. The business advisor
basically turned around and said hey, youre all qualified now and i urge
you to go self-employed, what a load of rubbish, i mean 5 weeks practical
training just isnt enough unless you have a long background in
construction!! And as some of you have pointed out whether a fast tracker
or a time served apprentice (which would be the proper route if we had a
government who pulled their fingers out of their corrupt, theiving
arseholes), you get the good, the bad and ugly on both sides of the fence,
peace out!!!
A
arran123
or a time served apprentice (which would be the proper route if we had a
government who pulled their fingers out of their corrupt, theiving
holes), you get the good, the bad and ugly on both sides of the fence,
peace out!!![/quote]
the goverment have no money to pay for courses like this, in this day and age it is down to the individual to to look after there future, or someone else will. (eg part time unskilled work)plus once your over 20 it is about time people stood on there own feet and get the idea out of there heads that its someone elses responsibility to pay for there education or support them through life.
government who pulled their fingers out of their corrupt, theiving
holes), you get the good, the bad and ugly on both sides of the fence,
peace out!!![/quote]
the goverment have no money to pay for courses like this, in this day and age it is down to the individual to to look after there future, or someone else will. (eg part time unskilled work)plus once your over 20 it is about time people stood on there own feet and get the idea out of there heads that its someone elses responsibility to pay for there education or support them through life.
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quickturnitoff
when i become "qualified".i could install "a brand new central heating system"i also knew the differance between imperial and metric sizes.but then again i did spend 4 years running back and too,and making tea....
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