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Discuss Radiator emitting strong odor when heat goes up in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at Plumbers Forums
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Mate I don't know why he doesn't claim on house insurance, John wants the problem sorted But by the sounds he has no money to do it looking at the photos the beading was put on as a after thought and I keep telling him that he needs to remove the metal case in order to see what is going on behind it and just to do that he does not need to drain the system
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Gentlemen, the reason I am reluctant to open up a job that may cost a few grand. Is because the smell has been getting less and less in intensity. This means that whatever is causing it. Is very slowly starting to wane. Why would I spend a few thousand dollars, rip something open. If it is the paint. And we know it's the paint, where if it was rodents as JTS pointed out. But never once confirmed the smell despite my asking several times. I had to get that from another source. If it was rodents. It would smell like a dead rotting thing. Which it does not.
If it was a leak. However small as JTS has also mentioned. It would show by now. In the carpet. Along some point near or under the rad.
There are no leaks. No stains. Smell disappears when the heat to the rad drops. A leak would produce a smell even with heat off. Which is not the case here.
I used an air compressor and blew out the silver foil and the black paper water barrier. This paper JTS did confirm and name as a water barrier. You guys don't think I would have noticed a mouse nest or mouse carcass when I was blowing out dust, foil and black paper?
I would have seen that as I spent many hours on this. It took many hours to get all that foil and black paper out.
Since that time. Since I emptied it out, the smell has been dropping steadily. At each relative temperature. At a low temp just after I blew it out. It dropped in smell.
When it went to -13 celcius, smell concentration jumped back up. But then within 4-5 days dropped dramatically. To where it is now. Which is a very mild smell. Almost not noticeable.
In the last 2.5 months. This is the best it has been.
The smell is not gone. But the fact that it is waning is a good indicator that I just need to let it burn off some more.
Why would I spend a large sum of money. Rip out a rad. Likely have to sand blast it to get rid of the coating that is off gassing. Put it back in. Hire a dry wall guy. This is a lot work and effort.
Why do all of this. When I can just leave it as it is, and let the heat slowly burn it off. Which is exactly what it has been doing.
The route you guys are advising is costly.
The route I am taking. Costs nothing. And will yield the same result.
There is no logical reason to rip something out and jump through all kinds of hoops when leaving it alone and waiting while it slowly but surely burns through the remaining scent is a cost free and viable option.
If the smell was not decreasing. Then the logical thing would be to follow the steps you gentlemen have recommended.
But thankfully it is waning. Very slowly. But consistently. If it spills into next winter and I have to crash on the sofa for another month of or so. That is not the end of the world.
Tinkering with a 70 year old radiator with pipework. And pretending that ripping it out carries no risk of creating other problems, as often happens when you tamper with old things. Well it is one thing to write about it and another to have to be in my shoes and deal with the consequences.
My choice, carries no consequences. No cost. Just some inconvenience on my part having to sleep on my sofa in the living room until the heat burns off the last 1-2% of what is left of that smell.
Hence my reluctance.
But I thank you all the same. As those are the correct steps to take if the smell was not disappearing or lessening. I would then have no choice but to take the steps recommended. Here there are signs of the smell slowly waning. Which tells me that I just need to be patient and let it take its course.
If it was a leak. However small as JTS has also mentioned. It would show by now. In the carpet. Along some point near or under the rad.
There are no leaks. No stains. Smell disappears when the heat to the rad drops. A leak would produce a smell even with heat off. Which is not the case here.
I used an air compressor and blew out the silver foil and the black paper water barrier. This paper JTS did confirm and name as a water barrier. You guys don't think I would have noticed a mouse nest or mouse carcass when I was blowing out dust, foil and black paper?
I would have seen that as I spent many hours on this. It took many hours to get all that foil and black paper out.
Since that time. Since I emptied it out, the smell has been dropping steadily. At each relative temperature. At a low temp just after I blew it out. It dropped in smell.
When it went to -13 celcius, smell concentration jumped back up. But then within 4-5 days dropped dramatically. To where it is now. Which is a very mild smell. Almost not noticeable.
In the last 2.5 months. This is the best it has been.
The smell is not gone. But the fact that it is waning is a good indicator that I just need to let it burn off some more.
Why would I spend a large sum of money. Rip out a rad. Likely have to sand blast it to get rid of the coating that is off gassing. Put it back in. Hire a dry wall guy. This is a lot work and effort.
Why do all of this. When I can just leave it as it is, and let the heat slowly burn it off. Which is exactly what it has been doing.
The route you guys are advising is costly.
The route I am taking. Costs nothing. And will yield the same result.
There is no logical reason to rip something out and jump through all kinds of hoops when leaving it alone and waiting while it slowly but surely burns through the remaining scent is a cost free and viable option.
If the smell was not decreasing. Then the logical thing would be to follow the steps you gentlemen have recommended.
But thankfully it is waning. Very slowly. But consistently. If it spills into next winter and I have to crash on the sofa for another month of or so. That is not the end of the world.
Tinkering with a 70 year old radiator with pipework. And pretending that ripping it out carries no risk of creating other problems, as often happens when you tamper with old things. Well it is one thing to write about it and another to have to be in my shoes and deal with the consequences.
My choice, carries no consequences. No cost. Just some inconvenience on my part having to sleep on my sofa in the living room until the heat burns off the last 1-2% of what is left of that smell.
Hence my reluctance.
But I thank you all the same. As those are the correct steps to take if the smell was not disappearing or lessening. I would then have no choice but to take the steps recommended. Here there are signs of the smell slowly waning. Which tells me that I just need to be patient and let it take its course.
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Gasmk1 I recall your post and that you mentioned it is not cost effective. I agree with that.
Either way, this is not a dead rodent smell. The smell would be consistent with something that died and is being burned or heated.
This smell is more like a fume as I have said numerous times. It is very likely that the people who were there prior to me. Painted the rad and never turned it on. As that is how I got it. In a off state.
It's been off for over 10 years. JTS did correctly observe that there are multiple layers of paint. That is what I smell. A paint fume. Something off gassing. Not rodents or dead flesh.
The important or key point is that it has been decreasing since I used the compressed air and blew out everything including the silver foil and black water barrier. Although I can't say for sure why those materials would produce any smell at all. The observable sequence is that the concentration of that smell dropped from 70-80%, down to like 20-30%. And has dropped more and more.
To my understanding. However slowly. The smell is staring to get weaker and weaker. Given that, I would not want to do what JTS keeps telling me to do regarding the panel. I would only do that work if the smell was not decreasing. Where that would be the only option at that point. But so far, thank God, the smell is getting less. Hopefully with some patience and luck it will disappear for good. If not by the end of this season due to insufficient heat. Then next winter when the -30 degrees celcius will come back and the rad can burn through whatever remains.
Again my sincere thanks to everyone who has taken the time to write and give advice. I made this decision based on observable facts. If it were otherwise, I would act on the advice given here. So it is much appreciated gentlemen. All the best.
Either way, this is not a dead rodent smell. The smell would be consistent with something that died and is being burned or heated.
This smell is more like a fume as I have said numerous times. It is very likely that the people who were there prior to me. Painted the rad and never turned it on. As that is how I got it. In a off state.
It's been off for over 10 years. JTS did correctly observe that there are multiple layers of paint. That is what I smell. A paint fume. Something off gassing. Not rodents or dead flesh.
The important or key point is that it has been decreasing since I used the compressed air and blew out everything including the silver foil and black water barrier. Although I can't say for sure why those materials would produce any smell at all. The observable sequence is that the concentration of that smell dropped from 70-80%, down to like 20-30%. And has dropped more and more.
To my understanding. However slowly. The smell is staring to get weaker and weaker. Given that, I would not want to do what JTS keeps telling me to do regarding the panel. I would only do that work if the smell was not decreasing. Where that would be the only option at that point. But so far, thank God, the smell is getting less. Hopefully with some patience and luck it will disappear for good. If not by the end of this season due to insufficient heat. Then next winter when the -30 degrees celcius will come back and the rad can burn through whatever remains.
Again my sincere thanks to everyone who has taken the time to write and give advice. I made this decision based on observable facts. If it were otherwise, I would act on the advice given here. So it is much appreciated gentlemen. All the best.
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Hi John sorry I couldn't diagnose the smell that your getting but that is quite difficult from 3000 miles away,
It just beggars belief that this heater has not worked for 10 years and nothing was done about it sooner,
By your description you are living in a small 1 bed apartment , and I am assuming that other similar apartment's are next to you ?
Do you have your own heating system or is it a communal one ?
Do you pay a maintenance charge ?
Who is responsible for the up-keep of the building ?
Do you own or rent this apartment ?
Has any repairs ever been done to your heating system ?
Where is your Boiler located ?
It just beggars belief that this heater has not worked for 10 years and nothing was done about it sooner,
By your description you are living in a small 1 bed apartment , and I am assuming that other similar apartment's are next to you ?
Do you have your own heating system or is it a communal one ?
Do you pay a maintenance charge ?
Who is responsible for the up-keep of the building ?
Do you own or rent this apartment ?
Has any repairs ever been done to your heating system ?
Where is your Boiler located ?
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my post re possibly not dead rodent
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Just cant understand why its took 10 years to sort out the heater ! and the guy sleeps in the lounge, small apartment with communal heating system maybe , if so someone must be libel for maintaining the system
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Gasmk1, I recall this post. I wrote that I remember you sharing this.
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JTS I understand not being able to diagnose the smell from that kind of distance. That makes sense.
The heater was not sorted for a very long and complicated set of reasons.
The boiler is in the basement. I do not have my own heating, but rather the heating system distributed through the entire building via the water rads. I am not aware of any repairs done to the bedroom rad. The living room rad has worked fine since I got this unit.
I just got off the phone with the fire department. They called me back, and told me that they do not have equipment to detect fumes emitted by paints. Their equipment is more geared towards hazardous materials. CO and even anthrax, etc. When I asked him who to contact regarding this, he was not sure.
He also mentioned that it could be a pinhole leak. But even to this I told him, if it was pinhole and heat was off, there would be a smell. No heat, no smell. So it cannot be a leak. He agreed.
So this brings me back to the 2 options we have been discussing. Either I get the building involved and if they do not want to do anything more with that rad. Then it will mean small claims court, etc. Win or lose it will cost money and time and a lot of effort. Or I just let it burn off, as it is slowly going away.
Letting it burn off seems like the cheapest and easiest route.
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So do you own the apartment or rent & who is responsible for maintaining the heating system ? Do you pay a maintenance fee ? some one must be responsible for the system ! if you pay towards the up-keep its down to them to sort out the problem why do you need to pay ?? something not quite right ! Have you made inquires about who maintains the apartments ??
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JTS as I wrote in my last response. It's a complicated scenario. The short answer is that the building is now responsible.
With the smell dissipating, it may not be worth the hassle to get that thing ripped out. It's not just an expense for the building. It's also a lot of time and effort spent on my part to co-ordinate.
At the rate its going the easiest way to go is to just let it burn it off. Simple. No cost. No headaches or potentially new problems created by tinkering with 70 year old pipes and components. Even if the building is responsible. Does not mean it will be an easy fix. Or an easy time for me. Quite the opposite. Even if they pick up the bill, it will mean a lot of work doing things that could create even bigger and newer problems.
The option that benefits both myself and this building is to let the rad burn off what is left of the smell. At this rate it should not take much longer.
With the smell dissipating, it may not be worth the hassle to get that thing ripped out. It's not just an expense for the building. It's also a lot of time and effort spent on my part to co-ordinate.
At the rate its going the easiest way to go is to just let it burn it off. Simple. No cost. No headaches or potentially new problems created by tinkering with 70 year old pipes and components. Even if the building is responsible. Does not mean it will be an easy fix. Or an easy time for me. Quite the opposite. Even if they pick up the bill, it will mean a lot of work doing things that could create even bigger and newer problems.
The option that benefits both myself and this building is to let the rad burn off what is left of the smell. At this rate it should not take much longer.
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So all these questions was a total waste of time because you don't intend doing anything ! just happy to sit back and hope the problem go's away, and carry on paying rent and do nothing, maybe in another 10 years you may have built up courage to complain that's if the building is still standing, Or of course your the owner/landlord who is to tight to spend out on repairs and just looking for a cheep fix
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JTS tell me the part about the rodents again. Where you made a blind assertion and then ignored my asking you several times what such a smell would smell like.
Your advice to rip out the panel when the smell is waning is not what I would call particularly apt.
Asserting something like rodents. And then ignoring and avoiding a question regarding what rodents would smell like is evasive.
As I said over and over. The smell improved drastically in the last 2-3 weeks. When I initially made the post the smell was stronger. Since then it has thankfully dropped.
If it did not, I would then have no choice but to open up the panel.
The situation here is complicated. And in no way is any of your business. All I was looking for was feedback on how to tackle this sort of fume or smell. Not a cross examination of my living conditions, what kind of fees I pay, etc. That is personal information and well outside the domain of relevance pertaining to you or my radiator. Insinuating that I lack courage or any other personality traits when you do not understand the dynamics here is not only inaccurate. But flat out blind assertion. Which takes me back to your rodent idea and subsequent dodge.
So please. Stick with things that are within the realm of your understanding and do not attempt to label or judge me or my situation. You have no foresight or authority to do so.
Incidentally it is because of plumbers like you that I am reluctant. I don't want to speak for all plumbers as that would be wrong. But a great number of them are crooks and prey on people's lack of knowledge and inexperience.
So you'll forgive me if I don't dive head first and follow the most costly and consequence laden advice from someone who can't even back up his assertions with evidence. Choosing instead to sidestep that question over and over. Never once answering it.
I think instead I will once again thank everyone for their help. Including you JTS. And just allow the heat to burn through what is left. All the best.
Your advice to rip out the panel when the smell is waning is not what I would call particularly apt.
Asserting something like rodents. And then ignoring and avoiding a question regarding what rodents would smell like is evasive.
As I said over and over. The smell improved drastically in the last 2-3 weeks. When I initially made the post the smell was stronger. Since then it has thankfully dropped.
If it did not, I would then have no choice but to open up the panel.
The situation here is complicated. And in no way is any of your business. All I was looking for was feedback on how to tackle this sort of fume or smell. Not a cross examination of my living conditions, what kind of fees I pay, etc. That is personal information and well outside the domain of relevance pertaining to you or my radiator. Insinuating that I lack courage or any other personality traits when you do not understand the dynamics here is not only inaccurate. But flat out blind assertion. Which takes me back to your rodent idea and subsequent dodge.
So please. Stick with things that are within the realm of your understanding and do not attempt to label or judge me or my situation. You have no foresight or authority to do so.
Incidentally it is because of plumbers like you that I am reluctant. I don't want to speak for all plumbers as that would be wrong. But a great number of them are crooks and prey on people's lack of knowledge and inexperience.
So you'll forgive me if I don't dive head first and follow the most costly and consequence laden advice from someone who can't even back up his assertions with evidence. Choosing instead to sidestep that question over and over. Never once answering it.
I think instead I will once again thank everyone for their help. Including you JTS. And just allow the heat to burn through what is left. All the best.
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John I cant understand why then your asking these questions on a UK Plumbers forum, being as you live in Canada, Its not as though someone can just call round and take a look to give you the answers that you seek, From your description the whole system needs a complete overall , if that's the case and you along with other occupants of the building are paying a maintenance charge then you should be perusing them to get the problems rectified ! Do you have a similar forum in Canada where you can put your questions ? It would seem that we maintain our heating systems to a higher standard than they do in your location.
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JTS I was looking for a forum that has active participants. This one and another site looked active. I did not find similar sites in Canada.
I hear what you are saying. Some differences would exist. But all in all plumbing and heating should also be somewhat similar.
At the moment this is the only rad that was not working until the plumber opened up the valve. Now it is working fine, but slowly burning off whatever is off gassing. The smell has dropped significantly but is still faint and present. In the area of 3-5% concentration. This is much less than 50-70% concentration that was there before I used the compressor. It was very strong at that point and holding. Now it has dropped off by a very significant amount. This tells me that it is waning.
You said I am doing nothing. Avoiding thousands of dollars in repair. Labor. Time effort. Not exposing this old system to even more problems that can spring open. While patiently waiting for the smell to disappear. This is very far from doing nothing.
Also, I used compressed air and blew out everything out of that rad. That too was not nothing. I didn't exactly have those tools lying around.
I have done the most that I am physically capable of doing. Which includes research. Weeks of that. Communicating with people. These are all proactive steps towards a resolution.
Unfortunately. No one seems to know what it is. This includes the plumber that opened the valve. Spoke to the fire department yesterday. They cannot help to diagnose the smell. Everyone seems at a loss. It's something related to the paint. As it smells like a fume. The smell is a good indicator or clue in terms of what it can be. A leak would not stop smelling if the heat was off. Would also produce some noticeable stain at some point regardless of how small it was. But here again when the heat is off, the smell is gone. A leak would not stop smelling. Neither would mold. This is why I suspect the multiple layers of paint. Given the type of smell.
I agree that this whole system needs to be replaced. Hopefully I will have left this place before they do that.
That was one thing you noted which was spot on regarding multiple layers of paint. Short of removing the panel, sand blasting it, then repainting and remounting it. Is there any way to speed up whatever it is off gassing?
That is the million dollar question right now. How do I speed this up without tearing this thing open.
If you have experience with that or can relay anything along those lines, this would be very helpful. As that is where this situation has shifted to. It is in the final stages of disappearing. But it is slow. With the external temperatures fluctuating and increasing this month. I am not sure that the lowered heat intensity will get rid of the smell completely this season. Which means spilling over into next winter. And some more sofa time.
Either way JTS. I did mean what I said. I do thank you for your time and for trying to help. Sorry for not being able to clarify further with regards to the building. It's complicated. If I involve them it would mean taking this to small claims court. That is as much as I can say. I would take this course only as a last resort. Hence my focus on trying to get this rad to off gas on its own and without too much external tampering.
I hear what you are saying. Some differences would exist. But all in all plumbing and heating should also be somewhat similar.
At the moment this is the only rad that was not working until the plumber opened up the valve. Now it is working fine, but slowly burning off whatever is off gassing. The smell has dropped significantly but is still faint and present. In the area of 3-5% concentration. This is much less than 50-70% concentration that was there before I used the compressor. It was very strong at that point and holding. Now it has dropped off by a very significant amount. This tells me that it is waning.
You said I am doing nothing. Avoiding thousands of dollars in repair. Labor. Time effort. Not exposing this old system to even more problems that can spring open. While patiently waiting for the smell to disappear. This is very far from doing nothing.
Also, I used compressed air and blew out everything out of that rad. That too was not nothing. I didn't exactly have those tools lying around.
I have done the most that I am physically capable of doing. Which includes research. Weeks of that. Communicating with people. These are all proactive steps towards a resolution.
Unfortunately. No one seems to know what it is. This includes the plumber that opened the valve. Spoke to the fire department yesterday. They cannot help to diagnose the smell. Everyone seems at a loss. It's something related to the paint. As it smells like a fume. The smell is a good indicator or clue in terms of what it can be. A leak would not stop smelling if the heat was off. Would also produce some noticeable stain at some point regardless of how small it was. But here again when the heat is off, the smell is gone. A leak would not stop smelling. Neither would mold. This is why I suspect the multiple layers of paint. Given the type of smell.
I agree that this whole system needs to be replaced. Hopefully I will have left this place before they do that.
That was one thing you noted which was spot on regarding multiple layers of paint. Short of removing the panel, sand blasting it, then repainting and remounting it. Is there any way to speed up whatever it is off gassing?
That is the million dollar question right now. How do I speed this up without tearing this thing open.
If you have experience with that or can relay anything along those lines, this would be very helpful. As that is where this situation has shifted to. It is in the final stages of disappearing. But it is slow. With the external temperatures fluctuating and increasing this month. I am not sure that the lowered heat intensity will get rid of the smell completely this season. Which means spilling over into next winter. And some more sofa time.
Either way JTS. I did mean what I said. I do thank you for your time and for trying to help. Sorry for not being able to clarify further with regards to the building. It's complicated. If I involve them it would mean taking this to small claims court. That is as much as I can say. I would take this course only as a last resort. Hence my focus on trying to get this rad to off gas on its own and without too much external tampering.
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I know you don't want the expense of removing everything but I would have thought that just removing the metal cover could be something you may be able to do yourself or with some help from a friend, they are usely designed to be removed either they just clip on or just a couple of screws, is it possible that you could ask the plumber that first got the heater working how they are fixed ? its also possible that the paint used could be toxic, some paints are not suitable for use by heat
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Greetings everyone,
I wanted to touch base and get some follow up advice on how to proceed. There have been some definite developments since I last wrote.
Firstly, please allow me to again express my sincere thanks to everyone who took the time to write and give feedback. It was very helpful and in many ways sobering. As the situation will require the work that JTS and others were alluding to.
To JTS. A massive thanks. I spoke to a couple of lawyers as the situation in my building is not pleasant. To make a long story short I have the legal ground to request the repair that JTS has been recommending all this time. I spoke with the plumber who opened the rad valve and got it working today. He confirmed that these older models do not have a cover which can be opened up. It is one solid piece. The newer panel will be the one JTS was referencing which can be opened and cleaned. As for sand blasting it may be more expensive. Also the plumber mentioned something about the grill on the inside being individuated units and sand blasting would not get everything off? Not sure on that one.
Either way. What JTS has told me, is the line I am pursuing. I had to make contact with the lawyers to ensure I had the correct legal ground. And from there the next step is to deal with the building's management and transmit this info to them. They may or may not wish to take it to court. It would be to their detriment. But the people managing this property are not altogether rational. So will need to see how this plays out.
I have some follow up questions.
There was some mention about black bead. A couple of times in this thread people mentioned someone installed black bead. What does this term mean? Is black bead the black paper moisture barrier? Or is black bead some other part of the rad?
I am concerned about the rad because I inadvertently blew out all the black paper which is moisture barrier as JTS pointed out. Along with the silver foil.
Does a lack of a moisture barrier present any problems in terms of a smell? Meaning if I only replace the panel and not put in new foil and black paper, can this cause a smell? As I do believe it smells a bit damp. But I can be wrong.
When they install the new panel, can they at that point install a new moisture barrier and then place that silver foil in front? Or are moisture barriers not used in the new cast iron base board rads?
Did I damage the rad by removing the black paper moisture barrier/silver foil? Do they need to rip out the back part and reinstall the entire thing or just replace the panel? I am not sure what is producing that smell. Most likely it is the several layers of paint. But what if they sprayed something into the interior of the rad? Meaning that the panel will get replaced, but when heated the interior enclosure could produce a smell?
Any ideas gentlemen?
I wanted to touch base and get some follow up advice on how to proceed. There have been some definite developments since I last wrote.
Firstly, please allow me to again express my sincere thanks to everyone who took the time to write and give feedback. It was very helpful and in many ways sobering. As the situation will require the work that JTS and others were alluding to.
To JTS. A massive thanks. I spoke to a couple of lawyers as the situation in my building is not pleasant. To make a long story short I have the legal ground to request the repair that JTS has been recommending all this time. I spoke with the plumber who opened the rad valve and got it working today. He confirmed that these older models do not have a cover which can be opened up. It is one solid piece. The newer panel will be the one JTS was referencing which can be opened and cleaned. As for sand blasting it may be more expensive. Also the plumber mentioned something about the grill on the inside being individuated units and sand blasting would not get everything off? Not sure on that one.
Either way. What JTS has told me, is the line I am pursuing. I had to make contact with the lawyers to ensure I had the correct legal ground. And from there the next step is to deal with the building's management and transmit this info to them. They may or may not wish to take it to court. It would be to their detriment. But the people managing this property are not altogether rational. So will need to see how this plays out.
I have some follow up questions.
There was some mention about black bead. A couple of times in this thread people mentioned someone installed black bead. What does this term mean? Is black bead the black paper moisture barrier? Or is black bead some other part of the rad?
I am concerned about the rad because I inadvertently blew out all the black paper which is moisture barrier as JTS pointed out. Along with the silver foil.
Does a lack of a moisture barrier present any problems in terms of a smell? Meaning if I only replace the panel and not put in new foil and black paper, can this cause a smell? As I do believe it smells a bit damp. But I can be wrong.
When they install the new panel, can they at that point install a new moisture barrier and then place that silver foil in front? Or are moisture barriers not used in the new cast iron base board rads?
Did I damage the rad by removing the black paper moisture barrier/silver foil? Do they need to rip out the back part and reinstall the entire thing or just replace the panel? I am not sure what is producing that smell. Most likely it is the several layers of paint. But what if they sprayed something into the interior of the rad? Meaning that the panel will get replaced, but when heated the interior enclosure could produce a smell?
Any ideas gentlemen?
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Well John it seems things are progressing, and again we are only making assumptions as to what is happening, until that complete heater is removed you wont be able to tell the extent of any damage or rot that has taken place, just very small drip over a period of time can cause a great amount of damage and involve extensive repair work, sometimes requiring the replacement of complete sections of walls & flooring, in our job we come across things like this involving small leaks & drips that can require major repairs running into thousands and requiring Builders, Electrician's etc.. make sure that you keep lots of photos of what is happening .
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Hi JTS. I agree I have taken some solid steps towards getting this resolved. I recall everything you advised and find that I am now more or less following this path. As the smell is not going away and you were right in that legally this is management's problem.
JTS I am not clear about what black bead is. And what impact if any removing the water barrier may have?
When you install new rads, do you typically install a new water barrier with it?
The rot you are referring to. Can that be the wood interior and not the panel? My concern is that they will replace the panel and not the wood housing. And the smell may not be gone. Is this something you have come across?
I'm not sure whether to inform the plumber that I blew out that water barrier black material or not?
I asked the plumber if they replace the entire rad or just the panel. He said only the panel. But if the wood or interior is producing a smell how do we troubleshoot this? Meaning when or how would you know to gut the entire thing and put in a new wood backing interior housing for the panel?
Again thank you for your help. I will definitely take photos of everything. That is solid advice. Very much appreciated.
JTS I am not clear about what black bead is. And what impact if any removing the water barrier may have?
When you install new rads, do you typically install a new water barrier with it?
The rot you are referring to. Can that be the wood interior and not the panel? My concern is that they will replace the panel and not the wood housing. And the smell may not be gone. Is this something you have come across?
I'm not sure whether to inform the plumber that I blew out that water barrier black material or not?
I asked the plumber if they replace the entire rad or just the panel. He said only the panel. But if the wood or interior is producing a smell how do we troubleshoot this? Meaning when or how would you know to gut the entire thing and put in a new wood backing interior housing for the panel?
Again thank you for your help. I will definitely take photos of everything. That is solid advice. Very much appreciated.
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Hi John I think the (Bead) that is being referred to is just the wooden beading that has been put around the outside edge of the metal panel,
our systems are somewhat different than yours and the type of heat emitters that you have more often than not got used in commercial buildings we tend to use flat panel radiators in homes, I'm assuming the smell is of rotting wood ! so replacing the metal panel will make no difference.
Once the cover of this heater has been removed then it will possible to see the extent of any damage that has been caused, This will result in the heater having to be removed so that the extent of any water damage can be assessed, Not knowing to what extent Plumbers get involved with other trades in Canada Your plumber may not have the knowledge or experience to assess what is going on, (if this was the UK then the heater would be left exposed until a professional Carpenter / Builder could examine the area,) as I pointed out B4 small drips / Leaks over a period of time can cause unbelievable extensive damage, Keep a good record of what is transpiring (Times of visits etc.) maybe have a witness present when things are being done, Photos/Videos are always useful evidence, even voice recordings if they are excepted in any legal proceedings that may take place.
our systems are somewhat different than yours and the type of heat emitters that you have more often than not got used in commercial buildings we tend to use flat panel radiators in homes, I'm assuming the smell is of rotting wood ! so replacing the metal panel will make no difference.
Once the cover of this heater has been removed then it will possible to see the extent of any damage that has been caused, This will result in the heater having to be removed so that the extent of any water damage can be assessed, Not knowing to what extent Plumbers get involved with other trades in Canada Your plumber may not have the knowledge or experience to assess what is going on, (if this was the UK then the heater would be left exposed until a professional Carpenter / Builder could examine the area,) as I pointed out B4 small drips / Leaks over a period of time can cause unbelievable extensive damage, Keep a good record of what is transpiring (Times of visits etc.) maybe have a witness present when things are being done, Photos/Videos are always useful evidence, even voice recordings if they are excepted in any legal proceedings that may take place.
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I think I understand JTS. The smell when the heat is up really high is of a paint or noxious fume. But if you're saying it could be the wood that has rotted. This is certainly possible. Ok. Will take this in the sequence you've shared here. First get the panel off. Which includes the surrounding wood bead around the outside of the panel. And then let the plumber or perhaps also contact a carpenter/builder as you mentioned. To assess the damage accurately. I will proceed this way. Thank you JTS. Very kind of you and others here to help with this issue. I will keep photo records as advised.
Do you guys in the UK apply that same black paper water barrier? With new rads? Or was that only used with the older ones?
Can the radiator operate without this moisture barrier? I am wondering if having removed it by compressed air. That now this exposes the wood interior to more heat and can this cause that wood to smell when heated? The initial noxious smell was there before I blew out the foil and black moisture barrier. But having done that now, I wonder if just replacing the panel without putting new water barrier will be safe for the interior of that rad which is wood and some dry wall here and there.
Do you guys in the UK apply that same black paper water barrier? With new rads? Or was that only used with the older ones?
Can the radiator operate without this moisture barrier? I am wondering if having removed it by compressed air. That now this exposes the wood interior to more heat and can this cause that wood to smell when heated? The initial noxious smell was there before I blew out the foil and black moisture barrier. But having done that now, I wonder if just replacing the panel without putting new water barrier will be safe for the interior of that rad which is wood and some dry wall here and there.
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