Rate my business plan

[Chuck]

Perhaps of more relevance Jamie is that what you are currently experiencing is not everyday, not authentic, not truly representative of this industry.

It's also illegal and hence a rather poor model to base a business on. It also means that as a landlord you're the proud owner of three illegally installed boilers. Better hope that nothing ever goes wrong with them and kills your tenants.

Sleep well.

 

[Jamesjamie]

It's also illegal and hence a rather poor model to base a business on.

These are good points.

So taking a fresh look at things if I still wanted to take a crack at it the best route would be to do the training and then go and work with the gas safe engineer we know to gain experience?

 

[Harvest Fields]

These are good points.

So taking a fresh look at things if I still wanted to take a crack at it the best route would be to do the training and then go and work with the gas safe engineer we know to gain experience?

I would find a new one. I will
probably get some backlash from this but I wouldn’t trust anyone that signs off someone else’s installs or work.

 

[Jamesjamie]

I would find a new one. I will
probably get some backlash from this but I wouldn’t trust anyone that signs off someone else’s installs or work.

I get where you are coming from but isn't that the barrier most have when trying to get into the industry? No one wants you to come with them.

I appreciate all the comments guys it's making me really question who I should be placing my trust in.

 

[Chuck]

So taking a fresh look at things if I still wanted to take a crack at it the best route would be to do the training and then go and work with the gas safe engineer we know to gain experience?

My advice would be to keep well away from someone who is making a living by 'signing-off' gas work done an unqualified person. Stick to being a property renovator/developer but start employing people who know and follow the rules.

 

[Harvest Fields]

I get where you are coming from but isn't that the barrier most have when trying to get into the industry? No one wants you to come with them.

I appreciate all the comments guys it's making me really question who I should be placing my trust in.

Your choice. But do you want to be the engineer that was trained by that other dodgy engineer, or the engineer that struggled at first but is now that awesome engineer? But like I said your choice.

 

[rpm]

Whilst I agree entirely with posts made above we all know that it goes on.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Whilst I agree entirely with posts made above we all know that it goes on.

Yet we make the conscious effort not to do it, or be a part of it.

 

[rpm]

Of course.

 

[Welder]

Personally, I feel Harvest's point about sticking with what you have demonstrated you are good at is very pertinent.

Surround yourself with a good, trusted team that you treat well and you will go from strength to strength. Do you properties up t9 a good quality focusing on issues like running costs and environmental impact and you'll build yourself a model difficult to beat today.

 

[Jamesjamie]

Your choice. But do you want to be the engineer that was trained by that other dodgy engineer, or the engineer that struggled at first but is now that awesome engineer? But like I said your choice.

What would be the ideal route for someone in my position then?

Yet we make the conscious effort not to do it, or be a part of it.

Yet we make the conscious effort not to do it, or be a part of it.

Personally, I feel Harvest's point about sticking with what you have demonstrated you are good at is very pertinent.

Surround yourself with a good, trusted team that you treat well and you will go from strength to strength. Do you properties up t9 a good quality focusing on issues like running costs and environmental impact and you'll build yourself a model difficult to beat today.

Thanks for the advice.

Not to blow my own trumpet too much but I've done well over the past 15 years starting from scratch. Over that time I have built up a decent group of tradesmen who do good quality work for me at a fair price. Obviously I've had some bad experiences and have cast a few people aside over the years but have a decent sparky, window fitter, plasterer etc. My maintenance guy has been putting bathrooms, kitchens, and doing other work for me for years now to a good standard. I feel a bit let down now to be honest that he's done work on my gas appliances and had assured me he's OK to do this as his gas safe mate always comes round and checks it over and then gives me the relevant documentation. Don't get me wrong I like a good price but not at the expense of safety. Think I need to find myself a new gas man.

 

[Rob876]

I'd say if you want to do something - do it. Take on whatever course you want to, and see where it leads, but make your own plans and keep them realistic.
I quit my long term delivery jobs last June and am going out alone doing general plumbing jobs already, if you study hard and have a plan you will get there, but I would just go for it.

 

[Jamesjamie]

I'd say if you want to do something - do it. Take on whatever course you want to, and see where it leads, but make your own plans and keep them realistic.
I quit my long term delivery jobs last June and am going out alone doing general plumbing jobs already, if you study hard and have a plan you will get there, but I would just go for it.

Thanks for the advice.

My regular gas man who I've used for years went a similar route to I am thinking. He did an intensive course then went with his dad's mate who was gas safe and got some experience with him before setting up on his own. He doesn't give the intensive training a good review in terms of gaining experience to be able to practically do the job, but he did say it gave him the basics so he was safe working with gas. He then gained the experience he needed of working on different systems whilst on the job with his dad's mate. He said he just did 6 months and then went on his own. He mainly just does services and landlord certs but I know he ticks over nicely and is very busy.

 

[Rob876]

Thanks for the advice.

My regular gas man who I've used for years went a similar route to I am thinking. He did an intensive course then went with his dad's mate who was gas safe and got some experience with him before setting up on his own. He doesn't give the intensive training a good review in terms of gaining experience to be able to practically do the job, but he did say it gave him the basics so he was safe working with gas. He then gained the experience he needed of working on different systems whilst on the job with his dad's mate. He said he just did 6 months and then went on his own. He mainly just does services and landlord certs but I know he ticks over nicely and is very busy.

If doing an intensive course make sure you start doing daily homework now, read lots of books (yes it does help a lot) and gain all the knowledge you can before you even get to the training stage, how else is one expected to do these daft courses and gain from them? It's all up to you.

 

[Jamesjamie]

If doing an intensive course make sure you start doing daily homework now, read lots of books (yes it does help a lot) and gain all the knowledge you can before you even get to the training stage, how else is one expected to do these daft courses and gain from them? It's all up to you.

I think I'd do well because I've got a general interest in learning about anything thats to do with property maintenance. I've self taught myself to do things like tiling after watching hours of YouTube videos at night whilst the Mrs is watching corrie as I've had a genuine interest in learning something and then putting it into practice the next day when working on whatever property I'm renovating. It's soul destroying doing something that you hate. Especially when you genuinely feel you could be a success at something else, only if you applied yourself.

It's time for me to pick a trade and take the time to get good at it. I've got bigger plans longer term but I want my bread and butter to be a trade.

 

[CHRISX]

Appreciate this info Chris. This is quite enlightening to me. I had always been of the impression that if the work was done to regs and someone was willing to check it over and certify it as such then it was considered OK.

Probably more concerning is that I have mentioned this before to various training providers and no one has pointed out this not being OK.

Time the reconsider my position I think. Thanks for the info guys.

Hello again Jamesjamie,

I could not reply to your message quoted above immediately because I was having a late Dinner.

I am not trying to labour my previous points - but regarding your comment here:

QUOTE:

I had always been of the impression that if the work was done to regs and someone was willing to check it over and certify it as such then it was considered OK.

END OF QUOTE

It is exactly because the Gas works would NOT have been carried out `to the regs` that makes it illegal for a registered Gas Safe Engineer / Installer to `Sign it off`.

The MAIN Regulation is that ALL Gas works must be carried out and `Signed Off` by a Gas safe registered Gas Engineer / Installer.

Chris

 

[Riley]

I fear we are wasting our breath here the OP seems to think it’s an easy trade to get into so good luck to him

 

[Zippymark]

I'm going to try and be a bit more positive, if you went by the advice of most here no one would ever come in to this trade. It sounds like you're in a fairly good position in that you're not so reliant on the income and have people you can learn from. It's almost certainly going to take you longer to get to the point you want to, it just takes time. From me actually starting to train to being a self employed gas engineer took around 5/6 years in total, but got there in the end. What i'd say is only take on jobs you're comfortable with at first, say no to stuff that you feel is too much. I did a 20 week gas course (after level 2+3 college), plus going out with engineers to build the portfolio and after that you're still not quite ready until you've got a bit more experience, so i'd say maybe offer to help the guys you know at a low rate. Also once you're qualified go on all the boiler manufacturer's free courses. Be wary of how the course phrase the placement with an engineer, it sounds like you're just mirroring them to learn so should be ok, but i knew a course that guaranteed a job at the end but it was just an interview, which no one ever got the job for.

As others have said signing off other people's work isn't legal so don't base your plan around that. One other thing i'd say is a gas course will teach you nothing other than gas, so you're going to need to learn the overall workings of a heating system, even how a boiler really works from elsewhere. Unless you work for a big firm you can't really just work on gas, people will just tell you their heating doesn't work, they won't know if it's the boiler or something else causing it.

 

[Riley]

What you say is fair point but still not realistic to many people who think they are going to learn an apprenticeships worth of knowledge in 20 weeks. No one is debating it cant happen but there are so many people trying to run before they can walk and talk as if plumbing is a simple trade that anyone can get into, when truth be told it’s just not. The problem with these courses is they dumb down the trade further and as such you get bad jobs for poor money, the customer knows no different so the cycle continues

 

[Jamesjamie]

I'm going to try and be a bit more positive, if you went by the advice of most here no one would ever come in to this trade. It sounds like you're in a fairly good position in that you're not so reliant on the income and have people you can learn from. It's almost certainly going to take you longer to get to the point you want to, it just takes time. From me actually starting to train to being a self employed gas engineer took around 5/6 years in total, but got there in the end. What i'd say is only take on jobs you're comfortable with at first, say no to stuff that you feel is too much. I did a 20 week gas course (after level 2+3 college), plus going out with engineers to build the portfolio and after that you're still not quite ready until you've got a bit more experience, so i'd say maybe offer to help the guys you know at a low rate. Also once you're qualified go on all the boiler manufacturer's free courses. Be wary of how the course phrase the placement with an engineer, it sounds like you're just mirroring them to learn so should be ok, but i knew a course that guaranteed a job at the end but it was just an interview, which no one ever got the job for.

As others have said signing off other people's work isn't legal so don't base your plan around that. One other thing i'd say is a gas course will teach you nothing other than gas, so you're going to need to learn the overall workings of a heating system, even how a boiler really works from elsewhere. Unless you work for a big firm you can't really just work on gas, people will just tell you their heating doesn't work, they won't know if it's the boiler or something else causing it.

Thanks for the feedback.

At what stage did you feel confident enough to carry out services and give landlord certificates?

 

[Riley]

That’s the point. It’s one thing doing a landlords gas certificate it’s quite another doing it properly as required by gas safe. To many it’s slam in the fga turn on the hob and be out the door before any questions are asked.

 

[Welder]

That’s the point. It’s one thing doing a landlords gas certificate it’s quite another doing it properly as required by gas safe. To many it’s slam in the fga turn on the hob and be out the door before any questions are asked.

There are none so blind as those who do not want to hear Riley...

 

[Jamesjamie]

There are none so blind as those who do not want to hear Riley...

I'm listening....... What's your advice?

 

[Jamesjamie]

That’s the point. It’s one thing doing a landlords gas certificate it’s quite another doing it properly as required by gas safe. To many it’s slam in the fga turn on the hob and be out the door before any questions are asked.

And you think that'd what they would teach me to do on a fast track course?

 

[Welder]

I'm listening... What's your advice?

My advice was given many posts ago James.