removing emersion heater from hot water cylinder, any tips??

[plumb_know]

i was just wondering if anyone had any tips on removing stubborn emersion heaters from hot water cylinders without ripping the cylinder, i currently use emersion spanner and try applying heat to stubborn emersions, but was wondering if anyone has any other methods or any other tools for doing the job??

cheers :teeth_smile:

 

[Barry98]

try stitching all way round the heater then use a hacksaw to cut the banded thread thats left

 

[plumb_know]

sorry if this is a bit of dense question, but what do you mean by stitching?
cheers

 

[mikegas]

This


This


An this

 

[Barry98]

remove the cover then get a drill with a 5 mm bit and go all the way round the element just inside from where the thread is

 

[plumb_know]

mikegas would you recommend these monument spanner?? or is there a better make and also would you choose a spanner over the box type spanner with the bar??
cheers for replying

 

[Barry98]

Tutorial - How to remove an immersion element which has been stuck in with jointing compound:

Time - Approx 1/2 hour from draining.

1, drain to below level of element

2, remove all cover, thermostat, wires etc

3, make a saw cut across top with hacksaw as in the first picture, down to the gasket but be careful not to cut through the gasket or you will damage the face which the gasket seals onto. Make another saw cut at about 45 degrees to the first.

4, with a 3mm drill, drill a series of holes across the face of the element joining the saw cuts and going round the thermostat hole and element terminals.

5, use a 5mm drill to enlarge the holes so that a continuous gap is created across the face.

6, next we need to cut through the vertical sides of the element cap where the threaded section is (first picture). Work a hacksaw blade along the gaps to clear out and parts between the drill holes. Next cut into the threaded part, being careful not to cut beyond the thread or you will cut deep into the cylinder thread and risk damaging the cylinder.

7. with a pair of grips, try to pry out the 45 degree segment. Once you have cut through enough thread you should be able to remove this (second picture). Once removed, you should be able to squash the remaining sides of the element top together to free from the cylinder and unscrew.

8, With a wire brush and miniature screwdriver, clean out the threads on the cylinder and clean any jointing compound from the mating face.



Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/p...ts-tips-secrets-plumbing-3.html#ixzz2CYpxaog4

courtesy of WHEPS

 

[Mike Jackson]

I'm with mikegas on this one. Shut the water off but don't drain the cylinder, even with a horizontal immersion. Decent Immersion spanner on the immersion and a sharp tap with a lump hammer. Once the immersion has moved a bit you can drain off what water is required and take it out. Leaving the cylinder full gives it a lot more strength and it is less likely to distort.

With a top mounted immersion I don't bother to drain, just use some old towels to catch the excess water, as long as the water shuts off fully. I've seen someone try this and forget to shut off the water first. Luckily it was a bungalow but it ruined the customers carpet.

 

[mikegas]

mikegas would you recommend these monument spanner?? or is there a better make and also would you choose a spanner over the box type spanner with the bar??
cheers for replying

The monument spanner is what I use, I have a box spanner with the bar but I only use it on the old cylinders where the immersion is set back in a sleeve

 

[plumb_know]

cheers for the posts everyone found them all helpful, can you recommend a decent emersion spanner and would you recommend these over the box spanner variety??

 

[chris watkins]

Tutorial - How to remove an immersion element which has been stuck in with jointing compound:

Time - Approx 1/2 hour from draining.

1, drain to below level of element

2, remove all cover, thermostat, wires etc

3, make a saw cut across top with hacksaw as in the first picture, down to the gasket but be careful not to cut through the gasket or you will damage the face which the gasket seals onto. Make another saw cut at about 45 degrees to the first.

4, with a 3mm drill, drill a series of holes across the face of the element joining the saw cuts and going round the thermostat hole and element terminals.

5, use a 5mm drill to enlarge the holes so that a continuous gap is created across the face.

6, next we need to cut through the vertical sides of the element cap where the threaded section is (first picture). Work a hacksaw blade along the gaps to clear out and parts between the drill holes. Next cut into the threaded part, being careful not to cut beyond the thread or you will cut deep into the cylinder thread and risk damaging the cylinder.

7. with a pair of grips, try to pry out the 45 degree segment. Once you have cut through enough thread you should be able to remove this (second picture). Once removed, you should be able to squash the remaining sides of the element top together to free from the cylinder and unscrew.

8, With a wire brush and miniature screwdriver, clean out the threads on the cylinder and clean any jointing compound from the mating face.



Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/p...ts-tips-secrets-plumbing-3.html#ixzz2CYpxaog4

courtesy of WHEPS

& this is why trainees, you never ever ever, use paste on the threads of joint that seals using a washer on a flanged face. My favourite is when they add hemp as well to really expand the soft copper threads out, making it imposable to get the new one to pull up tight.
Don't miss next week exciting episode of -- Tutorial -- How to remove an solvent welded plastic joint in situ.

 

[chris watkins]

cheers for the posts everyone found them all helpful, can you recommend a decent emersion spanner and would you recommend these over the box spanner variety??

The one Mike posted earlier.

 

[plumb_know]

cheers everyone found all comments very useful, i will go and buy my self a monument spanner now

 

[Best]

If you can get to the side of the immersion, where it joins to the tank, (easy if it is unfoamed cylinder) then carefully cut between the fibre washer & the old immersion using a junior hacksaw till you hit brass (NOT the cylinder side or you will damage flange face). This will weaken the grip the immersion has to the tank & a few taps on the spanner might work. Washer may contain asbestos though!
On a vented cylinder we have the best idea, - a Willis external heater, which means you simply just renew it with no risk to tank. Far faster to heat & heats from top of tank down, so energy saving.

 

[Centralheatking]

Only way to do it - works

I'm with mikegas on this one. Shut the water off but don't drain the cylinder, even with a horizontal immersion. Decent Immersion spanner on the immersion and a sharp tap with a lump hammer. Once the immersion has moved a bit you can drain off what water is required and take it out. Leaving the cylinder full gives it a lot more strength and it is less likely to distort.

With a top mounted immersion I don't bother to drain, just use some old towels to catch the excess water, as long as the water shuts off fully. I've seen someone try this and forget to shut off the water first. Luckily it was a bungalow but it ruined the customers carpet.

 

[Centralheatking]

Also - if you are in a hard water area while your drained down undo the top nut on the
Cylinder (the one that takes the hot water on its journey) push the pipe up and over to one side and have a look down into the cylinder.


Often its this bit gets really rocked up with the scale - if it is get a lecky drill with a masonry bit on and say 10mm and carefully break all the limescale crud away - bettre hot water flow into the bargain

centralheatking

 

[stevetheplumber]

mike gas has got it perfect use the monument spanner as you can give it a tap if it doesnt go after two or three taps strip all the plastic bit of and warm it up using that method ive only failed once or twice in 40 years
MONUMENT 361T BOX TYPE IMMERSION SPANNER | Tool and Fix

 

[mike-c]

Tutorial - How to remove an immersion element which has been stuck in with jointing compound:

Time - Approx 1/2 hour from draining.

1, drain to below level of element

2, remove all cover, thermostat, wires etc

3, make a saw cut across top with hacksaw as in the first picture, down to the gasket but be careful not to cut through the gasket or you will damage the face which the gasket seals onto. Make another saw cut at about 45 degrees to the first.

4, with a 3mm drill, drill a series of holes across the face of the element joining the saw cuts and going round the thermostat hole and element terminals.

5, use a 5mm drill to enlarge the holes so that a continuous gap is created across the face.

6, next we need to cut through the vertical sides of the element cap where the threaded section is (first picture). Work a hacksaw blade along the gaps to clear out and parts between the drill holes. Next cut into the threaded part, being careful not to cut beyond the thread or you will cut deep into the cylinder thread and risk damaging the cylinder.

7. with a pair of grips, try to pry out the 45 degree segment. Once you have cut through enough thread you should be able to remove this (second picture). Once removed, you should be able to squash the remaining sides of the element top together to free from the cylinder and unscrew.

8, With a wire brush and miniature screwdriver, clean out the threads on the cylinder and clean any jointing compound from the mating face.



Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/p...ts-tips-secrets-plumbing-3.html#ixzz2CYpxaog4

courtesy of WHEPS

If you do it this way how many times would you be prepared to go back to the job and change or repair tap washers due to brass filings causing the taps to drip?
Would you also charge for these subsequent repair jobs?

 

[tweakyboy]

If you do it this way how many times would you be prepared to go back to the job and change or repair tap washers due to brass filings causing the taps to drip?
Would you also charge for these subsequent repair jobs?

Ive done it this way a few times and haven't ever had a call back, as long as you clean as you go there will be very few filings.

 

[aaronsmith]

remove as much of fibre washer as possible with stanly blade,then heat the immerser up with blow torch,very quickly apply a candle to immerser at the threads,cappilary action pulls candle wax down threads makeing the two threads lubricated,work the immersion spanner to loosen the immerser! time consuming but will go eventually! good luck

 

[kay-jay]

Always rule out the stat first

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[plumb_know]

yeah i ruled out the stat, and a electrician checked all the wiring, the customer lives in really hard water area and she goes through a emersion every 2-3 years, there was 8 in her loft that i counted. I was there on her insurance to replace the hole emersion but it just wasn't budging, i will try all your tips and see how i get on though. cheers everyone

 

[peteheat]

Advise the customer that you will try to replace the immersion first but only at their risk / on their instruction.

The evidence is all around you to show that all of the tips given may not work (hard water & 8 previous replacements )and the cylinder may split.

I would give a guide cost for a replacement cylinder, no point arguing about money if the cylinder splits it's your baby then.

An informed customer is a happy customer (either way).

 

[Barry98]

I would want it in writing that they understand

 

[lame plumber]

best one is to follow what garage mechanics do when the van is serviced - suck noisily through teeth before telling customer that its jammed in and is likely to crease cylinder when removing immersion. then appply club hammer to immersion spanner three times v hard, if all goes well, replace immersion, if spanner turns along with immersion along with top of cylinder revert to plan B, install new cylinder and smile at higher profit margins you achieve on cyl swap compared to immersion swap. lifes hard but why go to the hassle of stiching and heating when you are more likely to set fire to the towels in the airing cupboard than get the bloomin immersion out without causing problems with swarf etc. Dont forget, you all out there trying to earn a living, you can try to hard if your not careful.