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Roast my external waste stack

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Rob123

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Hello one and all.

Neighbours had a builder over this afternoon for a quote on their new conservatory. They thought we were out and the subject turned to our external waste stack in the back garden. It was recently fixed there to remove the internal waste stack from our small bathroom. Anyway, they basically were saying it's ugly. The tradesman referred to it as "special", as in, really poorly put together.

I am actually not offended by this and considered it quite insightful feedback that you wouldn't get face-to-face. But hmm, not entirely sure whether it was warranted, maybe the tradesman was mocking it to give the impression he works to a very high standard. Maybe he was just a weird person. Or maybe he's spot on.

Anyway, what better place to confirm or deny his theory than here.

So please, I cordially invite you to roast my external waste stack. Or not! Whatever you think of it, your honest opinion is hugely welcome.
 

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It's weird. I kind of like it, as much as I like PVC plumbing on show at all.

I think the connection to the vent should have been from the highest point, but if it isn't causing a problem, I think it's reasonable to say it probably will continue not to do so. The fact that the person installing has bothered to use a universal angle to connect the vent rather than just put the whole thing on crooked shows a level of care and the pipework seems to be properly supported with access for rodding.

Two holes to get the soil pipe through the wall and then patched up with mortar plus the lack of sealant between the brick and the plastic is less impressive, as is leaving the labels on, but I suspect most of us have seen far worse. Is the small pipe on the far right leaking at a joint near the wall, I wonder? There's some white stuff...
 
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Yep ugly as anything but if it works

Why didn’t they just go straight up and offset it around the window eg (not my best drawing)
 

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I’m afraid it is ugly and obviously not done by a careful professional tradesman. Several features of the work scream DIY, but if it all works correctly who cares - don’t worry about it and spend the money you’ve saved doing something you enjoy.
 
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I can’t believe everyone’s pretty cool about it.... If I did that at work, I’d get made to rip it out and start again.

Obviously the design is Rubbish.

Lots of minor issues, if there was one, you’d let it slide.

Labels/glue showing, clips not even, clips extended with pipe, stack to far off of wall, no toilet rodding access, toilet connection exits wall Soded, vent pipe termination looks/maybe too close to the window, universal angle used (unneeded of horizontal stack was at a better angle).

I probably would have done something like:

C6BFFF8C-07D7-451B-9C42-1ACD888F21E9.jpeg
 
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Ugly as hell! Any of the ideas above would have been better.
Glue all over pipes and stack not plumb! Smaller waste pipes also spaced out from wall - why?
I reckon DIY or inexperienced tradesperson (first job of that type for an apprentice perhaps?)
who became a bit overwhelmed at the planning out stage, and then it all went haywire.
I wouldn’t have brought the soil pipe out any further than clipping distance from wall.
To any real plumber, it all catches the eye and frankly I couldn’t have it. But to much of the public, it probably looks alright.
 
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Hi Timmy, the reason I'm lenient is because some of the issues are a matter of taste. I agree MOST people will agree with the conventional ideas about symmetry, but I don't feel comfortable saying a job has been done 'wrong' because the person didn't follow these ideas. If it is a DIY job, I admire whoever had the guts to not care what other people think (it looks like the kind of thing my father would have wanted), but I do wonder how many customers would accept this work gladly.

Timmy D said:
clips extended with pipe, stack to far off of wall,
Click to expand...
Cosmetic issue, surely? Personally (when installing cast iron rainwater downpipes), I nearly always use pipe to space out the supports. Makes it less problematic if someone wants to grow climbers up the wall, makes any potential overflow more likely to be obvious and not soak into the bricks, and makes for easier maintenance in the future. Not that there is the NEED in this instance as pipe unlikely to be painted and no soil below for a climbing plant.

Timmy D said:
no toilet rodding access,
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Isn't that a rodding eye at the far left? Assuming the toilet backs onto the wall, would you really have put another one at the far right?

Timmy D said:
vent pipe termination looks/maybe too close to the window,
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Agree: too close to the neighbour's top opening window, too. Should terminate 3' above and it's only 2' (at a guess).

Timmy D said:
universal angle used (unneeded if horizontal stack was at a better angle).
Click to expand...

That's a really good point. There isn't any sensible reason not to have dropped the horizontal bit a bit more horizontal. I wonder if the installer knew 18mm/m is sufficient fall.
 
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Hey all, firstly sincere apologies for the late reply and thanks so much for your excellent and detailed feedback.

The plumbing was done by a general builder who I would say is, generally speaking, very gifted. He had a huge project and I think this part was probably beyond him.

So, the next step is to have this refitted. Looking through the recommendations, I prefer ShaunCorbs' idea the most. Thank you TimmyD for your helpful idea however I'd prefer to not have the pipe go up the middle area of the house. I'm sure you understand.

I'm not sure how much a replacement fit is going to cost. If anyone has expectations on this please do share.

Many thanks,

Rob
 
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Ric2013 said:
Hi Timmy, the reason I'm lenient is because some of the issues are a matter of taste. I agree MOST people will agree with the conventional ideas about symmetry, but I don't feel comfortable saying a job has been done 'wrong' because the person didn't follow these ideas. If it is a DIY job, I admire whoever had the guts to not care what other people think (it looks like the kind of thing my father would have wanted), but I do wonder how many customers would accept this work gladly.


Cosmetic issue, surely? Personally (when installing cast iron rainwater downpipes), I nearly always use pipe to space out the supports. Makes it less problematic if someone wants to grow climbers up the wall, makes any potential overflow more likely to be obvious and not soak into the bricks, and makes for easier maintenance in the future. Not that there is the NEED in this instance as pipe unlikely to be painted and no soil below for a climbing plant.


Isn't that a rodding eye at the far left? Assuming the toilet backs onto the wall, would you really have put another one at the far right?


Agree: too close to the neighbour's top opening window, too. Should terminate 3' above and it's only 2' (at a guess).



That's a really good point. There isn't any sensible reason not to have dropped the horizontal bit a bit more horizontal. I wonder if the installer knew 18mm/m is sufficient fall.
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I get that I went a bit over board with nitpicking but it was requested lol.

With regards to pipe spacing clips, I hold my hands up, I’ve done it, out of necessity/in a pinch (poor planing on my part) but definitely wouldn’t do it on show.

There are enough clipping/spacing options out there to select a purpose designed clip for any requirement.

I keep Talons, brass/cast munsens, rubber lined clips and threaded rod on the van. Gets me through 95% of the jobs.

As we’ve gathered, I wouldn’t have done it like in the pic but if I had to space the clip, I’d have used threaded rod/washers/nuts. In my opinion it’s a cleaner finish to an imperfect work around.
 
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Timmy D said:
As we’ve gathered, I wouldn’t have done it like in the pic but if I had to space the clip, I’d have used threaded rod/washers/nuts. In my opinion it’s a cleaner finish to an imperfect work around.
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You mean a female backplate with threaded rod? That's laborious and expensive, but I certainly agree it would be solid and look tidy.

Pipe looks good behind cast iron because it is covered by the pipe ears. With plastic, you're putting a strain on the plastic clip - which is less solid than a lump of cast iron.

Thanks for the tip!
 
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Ric2013 said:
You mean a female backplate with threaded rod? That's laborious and expensive, but I certainly agree it would be solid and look tidy.

Pipe looks good behind cast iron because it is covered by the pipe ears. With plastic, you're putting a strain on the plastic clip - which is less solid than a lump of cast iron.

Thanks for the tip!
Click to expand...
I usually use a 10mm concrete anchor (as long as the wall/fixing spot is good.

10mm hole, knock anchor in, bang expander with a 8mm bolt and wind some 10mm rod in.

I typically have a load of spare/unused Vaillant bracket rods with the threaded end which can go straight into large wall plugs.

Edit: I’d obviously use the correct strength fixing/clip for the weight of the material.

I don’t find cost is an issue as it’s built into the work. If a customer doesn’t want to pay for it, go and get someone else, I’m far from struggling for work.

If you need to up your costs to cover things like this, as long as the quality is there, do it. Customers will keep coming back.
 
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Timmy D said:
I usually use a 10mm concrete anchor (as long as the wall/fixing spot is good.

10mm hole, knock anchor in, bang expander with a 8mm bolt and wind some 10mm rod in.

I typically have a load of spare/unused Vaillant bracket rods with the threaded end which can go straight into large wall plugs.

Edit: I’d obviously use the correct strength fixing/clip for the weight of the material.

I don’t find cost is an issue as it’s built into the work. If a customer doesn’t want to pay for it, go and get someone else, I’m far from struggling for work.

If you need to up your costs to cover things like this, as long as the quality is there, do it. Customers will keep coming back.
Click to expand...
Can’t edit my post but just rereading it, it’s a 12mm hole for 10mm wedge anchors.
 
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Timmy D said:
Can’t edit my post but just rereading it, it’s a 12mm hole for 10mm wedge anchors.
Click to expand...

You seen the Hilti screw in ones there brilliantly 5.5-6mm hole
 
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Timmy D said:
I hadn’t. Just looked them up/ordered some.

Looks bloody good. Accepts 8mm and 10mm rod

Link for anyone interested.

Cheers for heads up.
Click to expand...

If you do get one with a bad fixing you can use yellow plugs with them 👍
 
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Timmy D said:
I hadn’t. Just looked them up/ordered some.

Looks bloody good. Accepts 8mm and 10mm rod

Link for anyone interested.

Cheers for heads up.
Click to expand...
That's a really good idea. Will these screw straight into timber? If so, they'd be a good choice for loft pipework where you might be using large diameter clips around thick insulation and where a Munsen backplate would traditionally be used.
 
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