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[WaterTight]

Only ex military bloke I've known was the most back-handed devious little thief I've ever met. But then again he was imprisoned and then dishonourably discharged so the system works!

 

[stevetheplumber]

never thought of that as a selling point im going to advertise as ex muslim

 

[newcastle phill]

Ive known a few. They never struck me as outstanding in any particular way. In fact a few joined from school - the sort that the only option for them was the army.

But as above some are good and some are bad like all walks of life - because they come from all walks of life.
But the assertion that because someone is ex military - they must be more honest is pretentious and frankly plain silly

 

[oz-plumber]

never thought of that as a selling point im going to advertise as ex muslim

Have a funny feeling that will get you nowhere very quickly.

Muslims won't employ you because you denounced Islam.
Non Muslims won't employ you because you have announced that you have denounced Islam.

 

[cr0ft]

Apologies if you find my comments pretentious Phil. I don't think we are really hitting it off are we, sensing a wee bit of friction! I only say what I say based on my experience as an employer and from my time in the forces and out (I've spent a roughly equal amount of my working life in both). I'm certainly not saying it makes me better than you or anyone else. I can say with absolute certainty though that my lads who are ex-forces turn up on time and are not afraid of hard work. In general they are organised and have good attention to detail. I also find them to be very honest. I don't know about you but those are qualities that I value incredibly highly as a construction industry employer.

All I can say is that you don't last at all long in the military if you have no integrity. You will be booted out very quickly by your commanding officers.

Re military law vs. civilian law I am just saying it how it is. If you don't like that I'm sorry but it's certainly the case that military law demands a much higher standard of character and integrity than civilian law does. It's not uncommon for service people to be charged for a crime in the military where no equivalent civilian crime exists. A good example would be someone who is married commiting adultery. You will not be prosecuted for this in civilian life as it is not a criminal offence, although you may well be dragged through a civil court by your spouse for it. This is actually an offence in military law and people doing this are held in very low regard by their commanding officers. In particular where it damages operational effectiveness of the military people have certainly been sacked for it before. There are various offences in military law where someone not acting with integrity can be charged with no corresponding offence in civilian law. This is fact, it's not just my opinion.

There are of course exceptions to the rule, I'm not saying everyone who leaves the military is 100% honest and full of integrity, nor am I saying that everyone outside is a lying toe-rag. The military prison at Colchester is certainly proof of this. I am simply stating my experiences as an employer and having worked on both sides of the fence so to speak. All I am trying to say is that in an environment where you are relying on the person next to you to potentially save your life, there is no room for people with no integrity who you cannot trust.

I may be reading into your replies to much but am I detecting a bit of a dislike for military people in general? I'm assuming from your replies that you've never been in the forces, am I correct?

Ray, what do you think? I imagine you employ a fair few ex-military staff down your neck of the woods?

 

[newcastle phill]

Ive arrested a few so I don't need a lecture regarding law and standards.
I have massive respect for soldiers. My in law lost both legs and part of his hand by an ied 2 or so years ago and is lucky now to be alive. aiming for the paralympics sailing team. (Steven palmer - reme)

I joined the police with 3, years ago.
2 were sound and 1 an unhinged idiot who was discharged after 5 month. A total unhinged idiot.

Many crimes commited in the military/by the military can be tried either way. There are no hard and fast rules on that and where needed they refer to CPS.
Naturally they need to be strict because of the type and nature of some candidates.
Is itnthe tails that wags the dog in that regard. I.e - they need these strict rules because of the average candidate
Not to stereo type but your average enterant wasnt cut out to be a doctor or solicitor or decision maker.
But your assumption that military or ex military are in someway more honest because of the position is a notion bordering on incredulous.

Ex forces in custody has never been higher accoring to official figures
How honest were they ?

 

[WaterTight]

once people become personally offended and start writing defensively all content gets lost among the posturing.

 

[hammers4spanner]

get loads of military round here and everyone i know just rolls their eyes when its mentioned

 

[cr0ft]

Shall we just agree to disagree Phil and shake hands on the matter? I'm sure neither of us wants to spoil the forum further with our personal disagreements.

I'm also sure that both of us have better things to do with our time than bicker between ourselves about this.

 

[newcastle phill]

Im saddened you see it as bickering, merely challenging your comments re honesty and you view of honesty & ex armed forces and that in some way you are more honest.
I dont think others probably see it as bickering either, just a polite clash of view points, where others are free to contribute or avoid the thread...

TBH it Was an interesting conversation and a break from the norm, even if you disagree.

 

[lame plumber]

regarding ex forces sitting in her majesty's hostels, one needs to consider what they have been doing in order to find themselves in the joint. I dont have the stats that Ray loves to use, but I have been reading about the inability of those with ptsd to cope with life outside the forces leading to a fall from grace. Prehaps we could consider that before commenting on honesty etc on this forum.

 

[newcastle phill]

So as you have stated you cant back that up regarding PTSD.
There arent figures for that. So how do you qualify that?

 

[lame plumber]

So as you have stated you cant back that up regarding PTSD.
There arent figures for that. So how do you qualify that?

that was my round about way of saying time to shut up

 

[newcastle phill]

Very intellectual
You dont like the thread? ? - no bodies asking you to look. There has been no nasty Ness before your last post

 

[Rickster123]

Calm down chaps please and refrain from bad language.

 

[Dotty]

In the interests of keeping the peace I think it may be best to close the thread here before anyone goes too far. Really don't want to be slapping a sanction on anyone.