should i have a room thermostat with my combi boiler.

[basildog]

The building regulations are Part L and I think table 2 ?
You can find it online I am sure ? ish !

 

[AWheating]

your boiler requires interlock between its controls to operate efficiently and meet the building regulations. the cost of a room stat will be saved on your bill within one year, two at most. £15 for a stat, £5-£10 for cable and consumables, an extra hour or so in labour time if hes competent to fit one.

 

[diamondgas]

Thats what i though when i read about it, it makes sense to me but he didnt agree.

Hi baileys ... As far as I am aware you are in the right here and the installer is contravening building regulations (Part L) and will lie when filling in the 'Benchmark' in your boiler installation instructions'. If they insist that they do not fit one then ask if they are registering the installation.​YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT REGISTERED! If so insist that they register your details and contact phone number....!

 

[baileys]

Have you had different people fitting the boiler and the radiators?
What does the quote say?

yes...the plumber wanted to do the boiler himself but i wouldnt let him as he is not a GSE. originally he told me he has a GSE that came in after he had done the wet work.

 

[baileys]

Hi baileys ... As far as I am aware you are in the right here and the installer is contravening building regulations (Part L) and will lie when filling in the 'Benchmark' in your boiler installation instructions'. If they insist that they do not fit one then ask if they are registering the installation.​YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT REGISTERED! If so insist that they register your details and contact phone number....!

Im getting confused here. The GSE came and connected me and filled in the necessary forms and said he would send them off himself.

 

[diamondgas]

Im getting confused here. The GSE came and connected me and filled in the necessary forms and said he would send them off himself.

So expect a form through the post in a couple of days letting you know that the appliance has been registered It's important that you have this piece of paper should you ever want to sell your home on.

 

[baileys]

So expect a form through the post in a couple of days letting you know that the appliance has been registered It's important that you have this piece of paper should you ever want to sell your home on.

yep will do. I just seem to be having so much trouble with my heating i wish i had stuck with my storage heaters. They only seem to work on the highest setting, anything lower and they go cold, he says its air but ive bled them and water comes out. He has told me to leave them on high for a week to get rid of the air.

 

[stevetheplumber]

have a look at the bench mark form he should have filled in and left with you its often in the back of the manufacturers instructions look what he has put regarding interlock

 

[Mike Jackson]

yep will do. I just seem to be having so much trouble with my heating i wish i had stuck with my storage heaters. They only seem to work on the highest setting, anything lower and they go cold, he says its air but ive bled them and water comes out. He has told me to leave them on high for a week to get rid of the air.

That's not right. A new system should work straight away. They need to get back to you and get it working properly.

 

[tamz]

It is not air.
Sounds like your house is quite warm and the valves are closing themselves down or the valve heads are badly positioned. You may be used to the house being warmer so 20º may feel cold.

Have a read of this which explains a bit about how they work.
http://heating.danfoss.co.uk/PCMPDF/TRV_User-guide_Flyer_100x210mm_VUIDD102_2013_low-res.pdf
Getting The Best From Your TRVs

and get them to fit a room stat.

 

[basildog]

Have you checked if he`s even GSR?

Not being funny but most clients or customers take a firm or trsdesmsn on trust as we do with a client or customer ?
I have ripped multi million pound houses to bits yet never have I been asked to see any insurances or even proof of a qualification ?
Only job I had to prove insurance was on a job for the railways before network rail took over we even had to do a trackside test even though we were well away from tracks my blokes will never use a train again as all worried if trains were where we were working no way are they safe !

 

[baileys]

It is not air.
Sounds like your house is quite warm and the valves are closing themselves down or the valve heads are badly positioned. You may be used to the house being warmer so 20º may feel cold.

Have a read of this which explains a bit about how they work.
http://heating.danfoss.co.uk/PCMPDF/TRV_User-guide_Flyer_100x210mm_VUIDD102_2013_low-res.pdf
Getting The Best From Your TRVs

and get them to fit a room stat.

I only had two storage heaters that worked so my house was always cold, now its up to 19 at the moment. What i expected to get from GSH was that if it got too warm then i would be able to turn the heating down slightly without the rads going almost cold but because i dont have a room thermostat im have to go round the house adjusting each heater, but because they all go too cold when i turn them down i then have to turn them all up again, its keeping me fit anyway. I will get used to it i suppose.

 

[baileys]

your boiler requires interlock between its controls to operate efficiently and meet the building regulations.

I dont know what you mean by this, what is an interlock.

 

[AWheating]

controls to ensure that the boiler does not fire when there is no demand for heat.

so for example a trv may control a rad but has no control over the system, but a room stat and time control does.

 

[baileys]

controls to ensure that the boiler does not fire when there is no demand for heat.

so for example a trv may control a rad but has no control over the system, but a room stat and time control does.

ok thanks, i understand that now.

 

[baileys]

ok thanks, i understand that now.

So would i be able to control the heat i want in my house better if i had a room thermostat.

 

[Mike Jackson]

So would i be able to control the heat i want in my house better if i had a room thermostat.

The room thermostat will ensure that the boiler doesn't keep running when the temperature rises but fine control should be with the TRVs.

It doesn't sound to me like the operation of your system has been very well explained to you. A TRV does not vary the temperature of the water in the radiator. Think of it like an off switch that turns the radiator off when the room reaches a certain temperature. When the temperature drops below that temperature the valve opens and the radiator will get hot again.

It normally takes a little while to get the system set up as you want it but don't keep turning TRVs up and down as this defeating the object of having them. I generally set them to 1 or 2 in bedroom areas, 4 in living areas and 5 in bathrooms and advise the customer to tweak them over a period until they get the temperature they desire.

 

[lame plumber]

combi stat costs b all more than a decent trv!

 

[Worcester]

It's been inthe regs since 2002, so it must be already included in his quote

For umpteen years, good heating engineers have been fitting roomstats to control heating systems.

Each room has a design temperature. Living room 20 degrees C, hall 18, bedroom 16 and bathroom 25. Heat loss is calculated with these temperatures. Therefore a radiator fitted in the lounge will maintain lounge temperature at 20 when external temperature is at -1. It follows that a roomstat fitted in the hall and set to 18, will switch the boiler off when the hall reaches 18 degrees. By this time, the lounge will be at 20, bathroom at 25 and bedrooms at 16. Same roomstat if fitted in the lounge would be set to 20.

While a roomstat will shut a boiler down (conserving fuel), TRVs will stop taking heated water but fail to tell the boiler that it should stop. Meanwhile, the boiler has now to rely on its own stat to shut down. It keeps firing every so often to maintain the set boiler temperature.

If the TRVs are used alongside a roomstat, rooms that are naturaly warmer (say south facing), shut down by the TRV. Colder rooms continue to heat until the roomstat (hopefully fitted in one of these rooms) switches off the boiler.

If the radiators are oversized, guestimated or not balanced, the roomstat will get erroneous readings and by unable to function correctly.

Invite your engineer to carry out heat loss for the rooms and see if he is able to do that, if not choose someone else..

Modern digital roomstats can control room temerature to plus minus 0.5 degree

 

[baileys]

It's been inthe regs since 2002, so it must be already included in his quote

For umpteen years, good heating engineers have been fitting roomstats to control heating systems.

Each room has a design temperature. Living room 20 degrees C, hall 18, bedroom 16 and bathroom 25. Heat loss is calculated with these temperatures. Therefore a radiator fitted in the lounge will maintain lounge temperature at 20 when external temperature is at -1. It follows that a roomstat fitted in the hall and set to 18, will switch the boiler off when the hall reaches 18 degrees. By this time, the lounge will be at 20, bathroom at 25 and bedrooms at 16. Same roomstat if fitted in the lounge would be set to 20.

While a roomstat will shut a boiler down (conserving fuel), TRVs will stop taking heated water but fail to tell the boiler that it should stop. Meanwhile, the boiler has now to rely on its own stat to shut down. It keeps firing every so often to maintain the set boiler temperature.

If the TRVs are used alongside a roomstat, rooms that are naturaly warmer (say south facing), shut down by the TRV. Colder rooms continue to heat until the roomstat (hopefully fitted in one of these rooms) switches off the boiler.

If the radiators are oversized, guestimated or not balanced, the roomstat will get erroneous readings and by unable to function correctly.

Invite your engineer to carry out heat loss for the rooms and see if he is able to do that, if not choose someone else..

Modern digital roomstats can control room temerature to plus minus 0.5 degree

This is exactly how i thought it worked and sort of how i tried to explain it to my plumber but he said that the room i have the roomstat in will turn all the heating off when it may be needed in another room.
I see now that its about getting the balance right. I will get someone to fit one because i expect it will save me money too if the boiler is not firing all the time.

 

[julesverne]

your plumber doesnt know what he is talking about. and to be frank i would ask to see what qualifications he has to have the right to call himself a plumber because he is giving you very bad advice. as said already a thermostat is needed to comply withbuilding regs.

why not post up in the looking for an engineer section. there may be one of us nearby who wil give you better advice.

Also get onto the GSR who fitted and hassle him for the cert and check the benchmark section has been filled at the back of the boiler manual/instructions.

 

[baileys]

your boiler requires interlock between its controls to operate efficiently and meet the building regulations. the cost of a room stat will be saved on your bill within one year, two at most. £15 for a stat, £5-£10 for cable and consumables, an extra hour or so in labour time if hes competent to fit one.

Ive checked the manual book that he has filled in and he has ticked the box...boiler interlock.. so does that mean he is saying that he has installed a room stat and not just the thermostatic valves on rads?

 

[Worcester]

Here's the Good Practice Guide :

[DLMURL]http://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/uploadedFiles/Drayton/Industry_Regulation/Good_Practise_Guide_302_ENG.pdf[/DLMURL]

Check out the top of page 8.

n.b. don't put / remove any trvs on the radiator(s) in the same room (or hall) that the room thermostat is.

 

[Nostrum]

Ive checked the manual book that he has filled in and he has ticked the box...boiler interlock.. so does that mean he is saying that he has installed a room stat and not just the thermostatic valves on rads?

I would say yes, is it signed Mickey Mouse at the bottom as well?

 

[Ermintrude]

Here's the Good Practice Guide :

[DLMURL]http://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/uploadedFiles/Drayton/Industry_Regulation/Good_Practise_Guide_302_ENG.pdf[/DLMURL]

Check out the top of page 8.

n.b. don't put / remove any trvs on the radiator(s) in the same room (or hall) that the room thermostat is.

Nice guide! It's a few days old looking at the energy saving trust logo?