Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopcock

[Deleted member 79252]

Hi All
I hope someone can help me.
If someone owns a property and decides to sell off part of it as a flat. Who is liable for the cost for separating the water supply and when should the work be done - before or after sale.

The upper floors of our offices were recently sold for residential purposes to a couple who have now moved in. The vendor selling the upper floors didn't ensure water supply was separated from the office on the ground floor. SO currently the flat shares our office water supply (other utilities are all separated). We have discovered the flat upstairs has no stopcock at all - and so water cannot be turned off in an emergency.

The buyers did not have a survey done when buying but I'm not even sure a basic survey would pick up on how and where pipes run to..

I would have thought the onus is on the vendor to ensure the divided upper floors have their own supply and this should have been done prior to selling. The vendor (my MD) believes that the buyers bought the problem.. and its down to them to sort it out and now its nothing to do with him.

If they are liable.. but cannot then afford to have a stopcock fitted and so delay the work being done - if there is a leak or flood - our offices will be affected by any water damage too. And I would imagine also our insurance wouldnt cover it as we know there is no stopcock to the upper floor supply.

Can anyone advise who or where I start my investigations?
Ive got a plumber coming to fit a stopcock as Thames Water state they wont do any work on a property that doesn't have one. But my MD is refusing to pay for this cost... even though we would be directly affected in the case of a leak.

I need to ensure I am armed with the correct information and would greatly appreciate your help... So calling all Plumbers!!!! HELP ME
Thanks
Nosha123

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Re: Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopco

If the flat is being sold as a flat, ie a separate stand alone unit it needs to be finished & sold as so before completion

If it's a bodge job then who knows

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Re: Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopco

Re reading the post, you're right, it's the vendor but the tenants solicitors should've made enquiries

Turn the water off each evening & send them notice of the need for their own supply

It sounds like an expensive mistake in their part.

 

[Unregistered]

Re: Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopco

So surely it is still the vendor who needs to fit the stopcock... then notify the Water company... that there is a new resident and then the Water Co will fit meter if they choose to.

Am I right???

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Re: Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopco

Not if he's sold it

I bet he'll shirk that one

 

[snowhead]

Re: Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopco

Definitely the Vendor (MD) should have separated the services before sale

OR should have made it a condition of sale that the new flat owner carried out the work at their own cost and in a fixed time.

The MD has only got Him or Her self to blame for the situation.

I'd imagine Greed at the sale took over.

If I was the flat owner I'd tell the MD to do one and demand a key to his premises for access to the stopcock in an emergency.

 

[lame plumber]

Re: Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopco

the office is now responsible for ensuring the flat has a water supply, it cant be turned off, messed with or other wise. if the falt wants their own supply they can get one installed, why bother if the one they have works though? they only have to pay for water used and sewage costs if there is an agreement for them to do so!!!

 

[chris watkins]

Re: Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopco

As the flat owner I would be a happy bunny "no water bills"

Stop valve, why do I need a stop valve ? it is not going to be my flat that get damaged if there is a leak and I am certainly not going to pay for one to be installed by you (or your MD).

If it suits me I will get a plumber to freeze the pipework & install a service valve/s so that I can control the water to my fittings but as there was no agreement at point of sale I think it will be taken that the flat is on a communal supply as are a lot of properties in London or any other city.

 

[lame plumber]

Re: Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopco

if it is on water rates, not an issue, if the office needs to charge for water used they need to install a meter at their cost..

 

[Neemos]

Re: Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopco

Hi All
I hope someone can help me.
If someone owns a property and decides to sell off part of it as a flat. Who is liable for the cost for separating the water supply and when should the work be done - before or after sale.

The upper floors of our offices were recenservices and make sure all the pipework is done correctly in order for the water company to come along and attach a better. for residential purposes to a couple who have now moved in. The vendor selling the upper floors didn't ensure water supply was separated from the office on the ground floor. SO currently the flat shares our office water supply (other utilities are all separated). We have discovered the flat upstairs has no stopcock at all - and so water cannot be turned off in an emergency.

The buyers did not have a survey done when buying but I'm not even sure a basic survey would pick up on how and where pipes run to..

I would have thought the onus is on the vendor to ensure the divided upper floors have their own supply and this should have been done prior to selling. The vendor (my MD) believes that the buyers bought the problem.. and its down to them to sort it out and now its nothing to do with him.

If they are liable.. but cannot then afford to have a stopcock fitted and so delay the work being done - if there is a leak or flood - our offices will be affected by any water damage too. And I would imagine also our insurance wouldnt cover it as we know there is no stopcock to the upper floor supply.

Can anyone advise who or where I start my investigations?
Ive got a plumber coming to fit a stopcock as Thames Water state they wont do any work on a property that doesn't have one. But my MD is refusing to pay for this cost... even though we would be directly affected in the case of a leak.

I need to ensure I am armed with the correct information and would greatly appreciate your help... So calling all Plumbers!!!! HELP ME
Thanks
Nosha123

Having worked at seven tent water and seen many problems this one in comparison is quite simple. Before the sale it is the job of the vendor (MD) to split the services. Unless he does this he will be praying for their water and sewerage. Better view the bullet and get it done pronto.

 

[Radioman]

Re: Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopco

Was it sold leasehold or freehold?

 

[joni os]

Re: Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopco

In most conveyance documents there will be standard clauses regarding easements and responsibilities. If the documents are silent, cutting off an existing water supply would be as unacceptable as blocking a sewer pipe. I suspect an infrastructure charge is lurking in the background. If freehold, the flat owner is in a strong position to resist. If leasehold, cost of water might be recoverable with other service and maintenance charges.

 

[Joncpi]

Re: Sub-dividing a property - who pays for the new water supply and fitting of stopco

There is no need to freeze the pipework to install an internal stopcock if one is required. You simply have to tell the office you are turning off the main stopcock in the footpath for a short while in order to carry out some works, as the service is "shared". You have as much right to do this as they have.
But they can not turn off your supply, even if there is a leak, without informing you. Also they can not turn off your supply permanently or even overnight.
If the office is being charged on a meter, they can not now fit a meter and charge you, unless you agree to it. If they do fit a meter with your consent they can not charge any more than they are charged by the Water Authority. No administration charge. Also the meter must be accessible for both parties to read.
If the office is being charged on the rate system, then nothing will change for them. If however they have a meter or a meter is fitted by the Water Authority at some later date, then the amount the office is paying will increase. I should think they will be unhappy about this and will want to try to get recompense from the flat. However the longer the flat receives free water and waste disposal the more difficult it will be to get recompense.
Either way the Water Authority will not be chasing for any additional monies as as far as they are concerned they are getting what they are asking for.
They will argue that the flat had no right to expect free water, and they do have a case, however as I said before they can not cut off the supply to the flat.
If the flat chooses to have a new supply, because they are on a shared service they have a right to do so, but have to pay the cost of this themselves now. Also they must ensure the shared service is capped off with no dead leg before it reaches their property.