There goes a nice install.

[Millsy 82]

Just had a customer phone I priced up a job for and got her boiler running again until she has a new one, she said oh thanks for giving me the prices I have been looking on the internet and found that I should be able to get a grant.

FFS how can a person who bought a house OUTRIGHT get a grant! I can understand people on minimum wage getting grants but this woman paid £160000 for the house with no mortgage!

Ah well rant over at least she won't have any warranty when they just throw it in.

 

[Riley]

The whole boiler grant thing is corrupt. I'm sick of outright owners and landlords doing me out of work with money they shouldn't be entitled too

 

[Ray Stafford]

Its classic government incompetence, mixed with criminal lobbying.

It starts off ok. "We must do something about fuel poverty"

So they do some sums about the number of people on low incomes and the cost of fuel, and someone (probably a 23yr old political science graduate) comes up with a figure.

Then there is some horse trading between departments and the treasury, and any other source of finance that they pressurised (like quasi-monopolistic energy suppliers). Eventually, they find some money. Since the government has no money of their own, the money must either come from tax payers, or from utility bill payers.

The politician gets his soundbite as they announce the programme.

The actual implementation of the programme is either a) run by a middle ranking career civil servant, who has no expertise in the industry OR outsourced to some QUANGO which has too many industry contacts for its own good.

There is then a process of "consultation" where the companies that are large enough to be able to afford lobbyists, tell the people running the scheme how the nuts and bolts should work. Since the civil servant neither knows nor cares about the industry, he takes the line of least resistance. If its a QUANGO, then its board is already made up of directors of those large firms, or people who next year will leave the QUANGO to take up lucrative directorships or consultancies, so either way the big companies get their own way.

Stuff the fact that the process no longer helps the people it was intended to help. That story will never make it onto Newsnight.

The core problem is that most people in fuel poverty don't control their appliances and insulation, since they are in rented property. The landlord doesnt give a toss because he isn't paying the utility bill, and the tenant isn't going to upgrade a boiler which will benefit the landlord in the long run.

A better solution would be to introduce a variable rate of tax on income from rented housing, with tax surcharges for properties which have bad EPC ratings, and lower rates for properties with good EPC ratings.

That rewards the good landlord making sensible investments, and punishes the slum landlord.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

It would be better if the big companies werent allowed to do the installs. This would boost work for the smaller firms, bring new money into local economies and more tax receipts for hmrc from the small companies.

 

[Best]

Same thing here, - landlords were getting grants for totally new heating systems if the people renting were below a certain income (which was actually a fairly high income) & the person who really benefits is the owner landlords. I would assume the tenants could then move to another rental property & the cycle continue of another grant given on that property!
I loose the work because it is only certain companies that carry this out & besides, can't compete with free materials & free work!
It is looking after the wrong people in society often - Landlords who are benefiting with free everything despite them running a business and tenants who many (but not all) are undeserving slobs.

 

[Ray Stafford]

I would assume the tenants could then move to another rental property & the cycle continue of another grant given on that property!

I understand its common for a landlord with a block of flats to move a single tenant (who happens to qualify) round the building, getting a new boiler in flat A, flat B, flat C and so on.

 

[Best]

I understand its common for a landlord with a block of flats to move a single tenant (who happens to qualify) round the building, getting a new boiler in flat A, flat B, flat C and so on.

That confirms what I was thinking, but I haven't actually know that to happen.
The whole grant thing is open to fraud. I was told by a landlord who asked a builder to price for a metal framed bay window to be replaced, that the builder said there was a grant. Landlord told him there was no grant available. Builder informed him there was if he opened the windows & put glue in them & closed them. That meant under a safety grant it complied! :smile:

 

[rocketmanbkk]

How much are these grants?

 

[Best]

How much are these grants?

My area there is up to £1000 grant to go to condensing boiler (oil or gas) depending on income, not savings. Then there was totally free heating installs if homes required everything replaced, or major components & pipework if the person had some sort of benefits, or disability, illness, or low income.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

I see

 

[stani]

My parents are both still alive, 86& 88 worked forever, never got anything without having to work for it, thus, they don't qualify for a grant.

 

[Riley]

It's just utterly wrong. It's always those that work hard that miss out. I think if someone in need genuinely needs financial help re heating their house or making it more efficient the fair enough but assess it on a case by case basis. And for gods sake don't let landlords manipulate the system by moving tenants around to suit their greedy needs its a typical big company cover up. As long as they're getting paid then they don't give a toss

 

[hammers4spanner]

I got shafted a few months ago over this grant rubbish , went out priced up a boiler change for a cust same scenario as millsy.

i know this cust through my accountant and he's far from being short of cash , 3 cars on drive prob 60 k's worth of motors , big detached bungalow etc etc . I price a boiler upgrade and hear nothing back , few months later i get asked to pipe up couple radiators for him turn up and new boiler installed.

Start talking about it and he tells me the govt gave him a grant and he never paid a penny WTF!!!!

Takes the pee to be fair how all this is against the small firms grips me at times

 

[kozak1968]

Got a plumber friend of mine that had a boiler fitted on the scheme. He was on a low income because he was doing his house up so not earning. Hes got no mortgage either. The systems mad!

 

[townfanjon]

It's called ........... England

 

[Riley]

It verges on monopolies though as it gives no chance to the smaller company and unfortunately more and more people look for something for nothing when perhaps the person can afford some or all

 

[kozak1968]

Europe might be more appropriate...

 

[townfanjon]

This thread is the biggest reason everybody wants to live here.

 

[Riley]

Absolutely right TFJ, it's all wrong but all the politicians are too cowardly to do anything about it

 

[woodsy]

I do work for a large estate agency where I lost out on several installs due to this and then the agency actually rang round the tenants who they knew qualified for this to encourage them to apply. It's a scandal and it always makes me laugh when I see in the trade mags saying the uptake of mcs and the green deal is floundering due to the installers not pushing it. They only need to read this thread to get their answers.

 

[Millsy 82]

Its classic government incompetence, mixed with criminal lobbying.

It starts off ok. "We must do something about fuel poverty"

So they do some sums about the number of people on low incomes and the cost of fuel, and someone (probably a 23yr old political science graduate) comes up with a figure.

Then there is some horse trading between departments and the treasury, and any other source of finance that they pressurised (like quasi-monopolistic energy suppliers). Eventually, they find some money. Since the government has no money of their own, the money must either come from tax payers, or from utility bill payers.

The politician gets his soundbite as they announce the programme.

The actual implementation of the programme is either a) run by a middle ranking career civil servant, who has no expertise in the industry OR outsourced to some QUANGO which has too many industry contacts for its own good.

There is then a process of "consultation" where the companies that are large enough to be able to afford lobbyists, tell the people running the scheme how the nuts and bolts should work. Since the civil servant neither knows nor cares about the industry, he takes the line of least resistance. If its a QUANGO, then its board is already made up of directors of those large firms, or people who next year will leave the QUANGO to take up lucrative directorships or consultancies, so either way the big companies get their own way.

Stuff the fact that the process no longer helps the people it was intended to help. That story will never make it onto Newsnight.

The core problem is that most people in fuel poverty don't control their appliances and insulation, since they are in rented property. The landlord doesnt give a toss because he isn't paying the utility bill, and the tenant isn't going to upgrade a boiler which will benefit the landlord in the long run.

A better solution would be to introduce a variable rate of tax on income from rented housing, with tax surcharges for properties which have bad EPC ratings, and lower rates for properties with good EPC ratings.

That rewards the good landlord making sensible investments, and punishes the slum landlord.

I want you for prime minister!

Maybe we could bribe you with bulbs? Down here daffodils are pretty much currency would 10000 do?

 

[Millsy 82]

It would be better if the big companies werent allowed to do the installs. This would boost work for the smaller firms, bring new money into local economies and more tax receipts for hmrc from the small companies.

That would be great if the customer got to choose who installed it but I suppose that would take a lot of policing.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

It's just utterly wrong. It's always those that work hard that miss out. I think if someone in need genuinely needs financial help re heating their house or making it more efficient the fair enough but assess it on a case by case basis. And for gods sake don't let landlords manipulate the system by moving tenants around to suit their greedy needs its a typical big company cover up. As long as they're getting paid then they don't give a toss

Aye, it stinks

I got told on my Vaillant course of a landlord that got 37 new vaillants installed for SFA and had the gaul to kick up feck cause 1 had issues.

 

[Millsy 82]

Same thing here, - landlords were getting grants for totally new heating systems if the people renting were below a certain income (which was actually a fairly high income) & the person who really benefits is the owner landlords. I would assume the tenants could then move to another rental property & the cycle continue of another grant given on that property!
I loose the work because it is only certain companies that carry this out & besides, can't compete with free materials & free work!
It is looking after the wrong people in society often - Landlords who are benefiting with free everything despite them running a business and tenants who many (but not all) are undeserving slobs.

I have heard of a landlord who told me that he moved tenants between properties to get the grants! I wouldn't of believed it but the landlord told me him self!

 

[Millsy 82]

I understand its common for a landlord with a block of flats to move a single tenant (who happens to qualify) round the building, getting a new boiler in flat A, flat B, flat C and so on.

Oh Ray beat me to it! Lol.