This made my blood boil

[cr0ft]

Well, if there's one thing I've realised I hate more than any other..

I met a joiner whilst at my customer's house today doing some electrical work as it happens. Seemed really friendly. Once I finished I was over at my folks house when I get a call from my customer.

'Keiran, have you got 2 minutes?'

'Sure, what's up?'

'The joiner asked how much you where charging for the bathroom. I told him £1,300 including VAT and he said that was extortionate, shouldn't be any more than £600..'

'Ok, well it's 5 days of work and around £200 of materials. Great that he's happy to work for less than minimum wage once he pays off his business running costs, but I'm not.'

A: - I can't believe someone would seriously be so unprofessional and also come in with such a ridiculous low price, he would earn much more working in a minimum wage job.
B: - This isn't the first time this customer has said he's short of cash. Yet amazingly, he's found the money to get 4 new double glazed windows put in that don't need replacing, brand new door frames, loft boarding, and a whole load of other things he didn't want done at the start.

The only good thing I guess is that I have a signed contract for the bathroom and the remainder of the work..

Grrrr.

and relax.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

keiran when you need a joiner don't call him! then when you bump into him tell him about all the work he's missed out on by doing what he did. or not lol

 

[Barry98]

im with steve , theres healthy competion then theres taking the michael.

 

[cr0ft]

Good plan. It does worry me how many people are happy to work for next to nothing though. £150 per day equates to a salary of about £11k per year, assuming you are working flat out for 75% of the year. Call me old fashioned but I wouldn't get out of bed for someone else for that, certainly won't with all the hassle of running my own business. Seems that even a lot of tradespeople have difficulty grasping that running a trade business costs around £11k a year before you make any money, I guess that's why I'm so hacked off about it.

Cheers guys

 

[Barry98]

he will be cuttinf every corner going , and you know it.

thats the difference between a pro and a bodging diy chancer like the chippy . clearly he has now work one.- i wonder why

 

[dontknowitall]

Comparing costs of running a joinery business and a plumbing business are like comparing chalk and cheese. The joiner doesn't have an FGA which has to be calibrated each year, doesn't need to have PL insurance, doesn't need a larger van (in most cases - or 2 vans in a few cases), doesn't have on-going training costs and registration costs, etc, etc, etc.

Once he's learned his skill (which I'm not belittling) he only has to keep abreast of building regulations on some parts of a house. He doesn't have to spend much time (money) on learning about new heating technologies, new CO2 regulations and compliance with part P, part L, etc, etc, etc.

At the end of the day (and after tax) the joiner's wage and plumber's wage isn't too mismatched - it's just the bills from a plumber are more eye watering as there is so much more to cover to do the job.

If it helps give you a more enjoyable weekend, an electrician spending the best part of a week doing some fancy lighting and other bits could easily come up with the same sort of bill as you!

 

[cr0ft]

Yeah. I know my pricing is right as I'm not quiet just now, I just wish idiots like him would be more professional! I sent my customer an email detailing why I charge the rates I do but it just smacks of desperation on his part!

 

[GQuigley67]

that's a bit like me walking into a house and asking the customer how much she paid to get her kitchen done, then me saying ohhh thats too dear should have been x amount at most. Kitchens aren't my thing, bathrooms aren't joiners things, the guy should of worried about his own bill.

there are desperate people out there working for ridiculous money, the kind of money you could easily get subbing or working for a firm.

 

[dancinplumba]

and he's doin electrical work !!

 

[cr0ft]

Who is? Confused.

 

[dancinplumba]

the joiner ? have i mis read ? lol

 

[CES]

I just had an email form a guy who accepted my estimate, watched me fit his boiler and now after I invoiced him he is querying the amount of materials I'm billing. How do we put up with these muppets who think they can haggle? I was there almost 12 hours yesterday as it was a pig of a job too..

 

[secret squirrel]

Thats never professional, I make a point of never asking what another quote is, I'm not competing with other tradesmen I'm putting in what I think is fair and right, the only thing I say to a customer is make sure your getting a like for like quote.

Oh and I never run down other tradesmens work, I'm not interested, I just do what I have to. Its just rude and there may have been a reason it was done a certain way

I was in a house with an all rounder, painter and decorator etc, I was putting a rad on the wall and piping up, customer was watching me and we were chatting 'odd jobber thinking he'd score a point said; 'I wouldn't do it like that mate' without pausing for breath or even looking in his direction I said 'that's why your holding a roll of masking tape and I'm holding a £40 bahco spanner' The customer laughed slapped me on the back and walked off giggling.

 

[GQuigley67]

customers really annoy me, workin in housing the now job on tuesday we left the house cleaner than when we went in, showed them how to work the boiler and controls, they kept asking about boxing in and plastering etc i just told them not my job im only here to install heating but it will get sorted, knew they would end up moanin about somethin. Sparks turn up next day to test the guy kicks off moans like hell because we left a basin with some bits of magnatite at the bottom, and "no one showed us how to work the boiler"

 

[GQuigley67]

Thats never professional, I make a point of never asking what another quote is, I'm not competing with other tradesmen I'm putting in what I think is fair and right, the only thing I say to a customer is make sure your getting a like for like quote.

Oh and I never run down other tradesmens work, I'm not interested, I just do what I have to. Its just rude and there may have been a reason it was done a certain way

I was in a house with an all rounder, painter and decorator etc, I was putting a rad on the wall and piping up, customer was watching me and we were chatting 'odd jobber thinking he'd score a point said; 'I wouldn't do it like that mate' without pausing for breath or even looking in his direction I said 'that's why your holding a roll of masking tape and I'm holding a £40 bahco spanner' The customer laughed slapped me on the back and walked off giggling.

handled that one well mate that would **** me right off

 

[stani]

croft, the electric work wasn't in a kitchen or bathroom by any chance was it?

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i read it as croft was doing the electrical work.

 

[quality]

Don't let it get to you and also charge more next time, The joiner is obviously very good not

 

[stani]

i read it as croft was doing the electrical work.

Just re-read it, see what you mean now, I thought it was the joiner doing the electrics.

 

[dancinplumba]

Just re-read it, see what you mean now, I thought it was the joiner doing the electrics.

not just me then lol

 

[tamz]

One thing most of you will find out is that 98% of joiners, no matter how good they can hack a bit wood, are scum bags. The dregs of the trades. Absolutely no consideration for any other trade except themselves. (i made it 98% because i know hundreds of joiners but only 2 decent ones!)

keiran when you need a joiner don't call him! then when you bump into him

Do it head first :angry_smile:

I just had an email form a guy who accepted my estimate, watched me fit his boiler and now after I invoiced him he is querying the amount of materials I'm billing.

Never split your invoice into labour and a list of materials. It encourages the internet bandits. Invoice total cost as quoted.

customers really annoy me

Your learning :lol:

 

[cr0ft]

croft, the electric work wasn't in a kitchen or bathroom by any chance was it?

Yes mate, I'm a full scope electrician now.

 

[Guest123]

Not just joiners who can be scum bags but those know it all diy'er handymen that think they know it all are worse. Local paper is full of handymen adverts. Jack of all Trades, master of none if you ask me.

 

[cr0ft]

Yes met a couple of them before. Met a builder once who was telling me how to plumb so I just started asking him technical questions from the Building Regulations and he soon shut up

 

[Barry98]

Yes met a couple of them before. Met a builder once who was telling me how to plumb so I just started asking him technical questions from the Building Regulations and he soon shut up

hope i dont bump into you and you start asking me cos i cant remeber half the buggers lol.