To DIY or not to DIY?

[DIY Bob]

I can understand a level of antipathy against DIYers in some of the threads on here, and yes, I'm sure you've seen some awful DIY bodges in your time. But I also expect you've come across some bodges carried out by cowboy traders as well...

Personally, I consider that there are many simple plumbing activities that can be carried out by a careful and reasonably competent DIYer without specialist training, providing you keep within your limits. We all do a bit of DIY, for example:-

• You may not be a professional tiler, but I'm sure most of us can carry out everyday tiling activities;
• You may not be a professional decorator, but most of us can turn a hand to painting and paper hanging;
• You may not be an electrician, but do you call one in if you need to replace a faulty socket?
• I'm not a professional gardener or greenkeeper, but I still mow my own lawns, etc;
• My wife's not a professional cook, but... on second thoughts, you're right. Get the experts in, every time.

 

[Alanka]

Ha ha! Very good point about the cooking!

I always encourage my customers to have a go themselves at simple jobs if they're keen and seem up to it, e.g. changing a tap washer, adjusting a WC ball valve, etc. They really appreciate the tips I give them, and I know that if they cock it up (which they occasionally do) they'll be calling me in to sort it out!

Go for it, I say!

 

[secret squirrel]

I don't think it is antipathy towards DIYers, for me it is the inability for DIYers and people in general who do not listen to sound advice.

There are some things that DIYers should never touch, unvented cylinders, gas boilers to name but two.

DIYers also need to understand that just because you go to B & Q and buy a length of plastic pipe and a few joints, or a length of copper and you connect them, this does not make you a plumber!

Your quite right, I will not call in a sparks to change a socket but because I change a socket doesn't mean I can change a consumer unit.

Huge difference between certain trades as well, a professional decorator will not flood a house because he's taken a rad off, if it looks rusty he'll advise 'get a pro in'


And just because you own a lawn mower doesn't make you a greens keeper capable of keeping a football stadium.

You can continue your analargy on as well:

When I travel to the back end of no where I'll carry an emergency dental kit, am I a dentist?

Because I have a law book and a PC does that make me a lawyer?

The part of your post that should be in bold and underlined is ''KEEP WITHIN YOUR LIMITS''

The difference in posts made by diyers is quite simple: those that listen and those that don't.

A diyer will be told/advised what to do and keeps coming back and back until they get the answer that suits, only my opinion though.

 

[secret squirrel]

Ha ha! Very good point about the cooking!

I always encourage my customers to have a go themselves at simple jobs if they're keen and seem up to it, e.g. changing a tap washer, adjusting a WC ball valve, etc. They really appreciate the tips I give them, and I know that if they cock it up (which they occasionally do) they'll be calling me in to sort it out!

Go for it, I say!

I had a small job the other day, outside tap that didn't work, the internal check valve knackered. Took me 10 minutes, tools used large grips, ptfe, new stopcock, trips to B & Q, none. Potential problems, iso valve not being fitted, stopcock to house not working, unable to turn off mains to house, possible need to freeze pipe. Worse case scenario Trips to b & q, none.

My point is as all professional plumbers know or competent diyers plumbing can be a nightmare, even the simple jobs.

Having spoken to my customer, he said that would have taken me a couple of hours and I wouldn't have know to wrap it in ptfe and certainly not that many times.

If you've got the time do it but if it goes wrong it can go wrong real fast and goes from a simple fix to an emergency and instead of costing £xx it'll now cost £***.

I suppose its the risk we all run.

 

[warrington]

Agree with cooking side :grin: ! on DIY jobs , engineers give really good tips on this forum if it is a job that can be done by DIYers, but the main thing is they need to know their limits!

 

[Puddle]

Think you are getting the basic concept wrong

DIY stands for Do It Yourself,no where it that statement does it state bogde the job up,do it wrong,cut corners or carry out to low standards

There is nothing wrong with DIY,in fact in many cases,the improvements it has allowed to properties in their maintenance and modernisation has been a god send,many folk would not be able to afford to get outside labour in to carry out many big projects,it has allowed ourliving standards and comfort to be raised

However were the problem lies is folk knowing the limitations and the regulations involved in the works to be carried out,also allowing themselves enough time to carry out the works involved

I have seen many great diy jobs,that any professional would be proud to of carried out,then of course you see the night mares,these are the ones that get the press

You can not tell the book by the cover either,the infrastructure is so important and this is were many diyer's go wrong,they are to busy worrying about how it looks when finished and make some expensive mistakes ,when stuff has to be removed to correct problems

I have also seen some visually very poor diy jobs and the diyer knows this,was at one the other week,the tiles were not lined up correctly ,the sink slightly off level,the pipe work to rad,run like a 'z' to its new position,the top half paint cutting in was a bit shaky to say the least but it was functional,the tiles were fixed to the wall ok,the sink was secure and pipework was sound and joints all good ect,and owner was happy with it

Me being me told him it was a bit of a state and he should have taken his time more and got help were he needed it

He replayed,''I know it looks a bit shabby but its better than the moldy disgusting state it was in before,I could not afford to get someone in,so got w/c from boot sale,basin and taps from a builder who took it out else were,only been in a few months,bought bath ,got tiles in sale ,I plodded on slowly,went without water for a week and got done''

''I know my skills are limited and poor in a lot of areas regards finishing but as said,do I live using a bath stained,moldy disgusting bathroom until I can save up to get it done which will be never or get stuck in and live with a shabby new clean bathroom,that I am happy with even with the faults?''

It got me thinking,we as professionals spend ages getting pipe work neat and tidy,tiling spot on,flooring perfectly flat and smooth ect,do customers really appreciate or notice,what tolerance do we really have,I use my tolerance,which is not a lot,how off level can a rad be before the customer would say owt ?

imho

 

[WaterTight]

how off level can a rad be before the customer would say owt ?

Joe 'Spirit Level' Smith with a shed full of gleaming tools who peeks over your shoulder the whole time and refers to the parts by their correct name: 0.25 degrees

Larry 'Yes I Suppose That Floor Has Been Wet For A Couple Of Years Now. I Can Barely Imagine The Place Without The Frogs' Smith: 25 degrees.

 

[DIY Bob]

Think you are getting the basic concept wrong

DIY stands for Do It Yourself, no where it that statement does it state bogde the job up, do it wrong, cut corners or carry out to low standards

There is nothing wrong with DIY,in fact in many cases,the improvements it has allowed to properties in their maintenance and modernisation has been a god send,many folk would not be able to afford to get outside labour in to carry out many big projects,it has allowed ourliving standards and comfort to be raised

However were the problem lies is folk knowing the limitations and the regulations involved in the works to be carried out,also allowing themselves enough time to carry out the works involved

I have seen many great diy jobs,that any professional would be proud to of carried out,then of course you see the night mares,these are the ones that get the press.

My point and sentiments exactly Puddle. There are many would-be DIYers I wouldn't advise to change a washer or adjust a ball-cock. There are others who can carry out work to a very good standard (after taking advice, checking regs where appropriate), often because they're not on the clock and they've got the time to spare.

Anyway, good to get the dialogue going, and as you say, any DIY job that goes wrong is an opportunity for work for a plumber.

 

[DIY Bob]

I don't think it is antipathy towards DIYers, for me it is the inability for DIYers and people in general who do not listen to sound advice.

There are some things that DIYers should never touch, unvented cylinders, gas boilers to name but two. I agree!

DIYers also need to understand that just because you go to B & Q and buy a length of plastic pipe and a few joints, or a length of copper and you connect them, this does not make you a plumber!

Your quite right, I will not call in a sparks to change a socket but because I change a socket doesn't mean I can change a consumer unit. I agree. I might be able to do straightforward plumbing jobs and swaps, but wouldn't dream of biting off more than I can chew.

Huge difference between certain trades as well, a professional decorator will not flood a house because he's taken a rad off, if it looks rusty he'll advise 'get a pro in'


And just because you own a lawn mower doesn't make you a greens keeper capable of keeping a football stadium. My point exactly - I wouldn't attempt Wembley, but I wouldn't get a gardner in to mow my garden either.

You can continue your analargy on as well:

When I travel to the back end of no where I'll carry an emergency dental kit, am I a dentist? No, but you know what to do when you've got toothache, and give it a go before you go to the dentist!

Because I have a law book and a PC does that make me a lawyer? Hadn't thought of that one!

The part of your post that should be in bold and underlined is ''KEEP WITHIN YOUR LIMITS''

The difference in posts made by diyers is quite simple: those that listen and those that don't.

A diyer will be told/advised what to do and keeps coming back and back until they get the answer that suits, only my opinion though. You are right - I've seen a number on the forum who ask the question but don't like the answer given.

There you go Secret Squirrel - I think we agree!

 

[WaterTight]

Just like there is no definitive, objective description of a plumber, there isn't one of a DIY'er. So descriptions of what either should do is essentially meaningless. The number of jobs you shouldn't legally attempt unless appropriately qualified are small in number. The rest is down to how skilled, knowledgable and practical the person is and how thorough and methodical they are in their research. We call ourselves plumbers so people know what we do when they require our services for money. But for the most part it's just a word, not a thing. Same for DIY'er.

The DIY culture as a whole might be a more worthy recipient of criticism/defence.

 

[Mike Jackson]

It would be hypocritical of most of us to speak out against DIY as I'm sure most of us will dabble in other trades when working on our cars or houses. The important thing is not to work beyond your capabilities or understanding. Mind you there are plenty of tradespeople that do that as well as DIYers. I'm sure I'm not alone in having to go and put right work installed by fellow "professionals"