Train 4 Trade Skills

[WHPES]

If you come to something new to you and have no experience in it, but have background knowledge, you can get a tape measure, calculator, textbook, pen and paper and work out what's going on, what to use and how to do the task.

You can always tell my work as I use a lot of swept bends, swept tees etc in my larger circuits and avoid restrictions as much as possible. Maybe you think it's a bit OTT but all my visible nut heads and screw slots line up at the same angle. Looks neat for anyone looking. I worked with Navy guys for a while and that is where I picked up that habit as they are very particular about the appearance of finished jobs.

 

[student plumber]

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

-----------------------------------------

I agree, I'm on one of these courses and there's methods in the coursework and 3D software, but I figured there has to be more than that. I'm thinking if you have pipe and you take the outside measurement but it's 1mm wall you're accounting for water that isn't there, or an immersion heater but how much element is in there or is that all ready accounted for, or am I a bit off track there.

When I go for practical I want to try as many methods in an area as possible e.g. pipe bending, not just what's in the book. I've been working in sheet metal and microns make a lot of difference. The method for bending I cut a tube to length first then bend, I worked out how much I gained before hand, and they came out pretty much the same (not a very accurate bender) and very quickly. I always try and look deeper I would be very interested to hear more.

 

[Joanna]

Tells me ur on the team. Only 1 of about a thousand sad stories with such positivity for t4ts Ive come across. Wonder how much ur getting to sing their praises. All proffesionals warn of these expensive waste of time bull**** courses, gets no1 anywhere but in debt. GET A GRIP COZ UR NOT FOOLIN ANY 1 ESP ME!

 

[heinz57]

Whether you've got a million bits of paper that say your a genious or not dont mean dic#. All any employer will see is whether you can do the job or not, thats pretty much all they care about. If your face fits, you get along with the rest of the crew/customers then great. People worry too much about 6129 and 5817 or r2 fuc~ing d2!!!! The only bits of paper you should be worried about are gassafe, part -p and un-vented. As for trade skills, for most people there a complete rip off, waste of time. Being self employed is an absolute nightmare, especially while doing it alone, you have to be a tradesman, accountant, mechanic, business manager, lawyer, ad-man and all at the same time. When you get home from work you spend frigging hours doing paperwork, it aint easy. When you go for an interview stop flapping about your 6185 or your c3p0, tell the boss your comming to work for him for a weeks fuc#ing trial, at the end of the week when you've got the job, problem solved!!!!! Works for me.

 

[bobby]

i just started the course and feel it has something to offer yes its expensive but hopefully it will be money well spent i know qualifications dont mean a thing without practical experience but you have to start somewhere! i'll keep posting throughout the course with an honest opinion!so wish me luck!!!

 

[Karl Walker]

I started the T4TS Plumbing Course about 2 months ago.. I am finding it very interesting and think that it is a really involved trade to learn.
But i am under no illusions that this will be easy or a quick way into a high paying career reguardless of the sales pitch that was given.
I spoke to a Tutor or a TA this morning they confirmed that i would be doing my Practical @ Luton based on the course that i was doing.
Its going to take time and i will have to give up evenings and weekends if i have to to get the necessary experiance required to competently goto a job on my own and be let loose on someone's home.
Yes its alot of money but think about it in the long run.

What will you achieve by investing money in yourself?

Ive been reading alot of the posts on this forum and i too still have doubts, I am doing this course to try and get me from between a rock and a hard place (a career that seems to be going no where despite been doing it for 7 years). end of the day no one can take the qualifications away from me.

Also do what is right for you! don't sign up if you don't think that you will be able to put in the required time.

 

[marksparky]

Hello Karl...Its not all about the time and the effort that you put into these training courses..its all about what you get out of it at the end....be it a tech certification..an OCN ..or a step towards an NVQ.. whatever load of crap you ve been sold....I hope you researched it all before signing up...cos I didn,t and I got stung for £4000...bringing home a 6022 and 6032..which does nt mean anything in the trade....yeah I got my water regs Qualification but it does nt matter with those type of City and Guilds awards.....

 

[fuzzy]

wots the 6022 and 6032, never heard of em?

 

[Karl Walker]

City & Guilds 6022 Domestic Copper Installer certificate
City & Guilds 6032 Sanitary Accommodation certificate
2 day weekend assessment only course
Previous plumbing experience mandatory
Stand alone qualification not part of the NVQ
Does not qualify the person as a plumber with an NVQ
1 practical and 1 written test per certificate
Information from City & Guilds 6022 And City & Guilds 6032 Plumbing Course in York - PPL Training

 

[Karl Walker]

Sorry to hear that Mark.

TBH i didn't do much research. I had the questions answered that I had over the phone. I asked what i would be doing i.e where and when. what qualifications i would get and how long the average person takes to complete the course.

Im doing the C&G 6129 L2 & L3. Im going to call local plumbing companys looking for someone to take me on to show me how to be a competent reliable plumber. And to see how to properly fault find system problems, rather than text book faults 1 problem 1 solution thats all you need to know.

I will continue to post based on my views and outcomes of this course and how it has or hasn't worked for me and if it works out for me. I have no problem telling anyone thatreads these post if its a scam or not, my opinion so far is not.

Regards

 

[marksparky]

Hi Karl

When I signed up for my course I was told and assured that the qualifications that I would recieve would be at NVQ level...They are just credits towards an NVQ....My qualifications are a step below yours..I would nt like to see you ripped off in any way and I hope you are aware of this information below.....

After successful completion of the 6129 students often go on to complete the City & Guilds 6089 NVQ while working as a self-employed plumber or for a plumbing company.

Basically paying a large sum of money for just a step in the right direction..

regards Mark

 

[fuzzy]

they not worth much then?

 

[Dawny]

Ok.....having only NOW heard about this train for trade SCAM business i'm very worried...signed up (enrolled) yesterday...paid my £100 enrollment fee, signed up for the NVQ level 3 course at £5700..i'm REALLY concerned...WILL i get the qualification's i need? although i want to be able to get the practical experiance while doing this course, i know it's a lot of money but as a mum of young twins i can't afford the childcare fee's for college. SOMEONE MUST have something good to say about this? i'm getting very worried that i have made a big mistake. (saw them advertised on TV by the way)

 

[Gray0689]

Ok.....having only NOW heard about this train for trade SCAM business i'm very worried...signed up (enrolled) yesterday...paid my £100 enrollment fee, signed up for the NVQ level 3 course at £5700..i'm REALLY concerned...WILL i get the qualification's i need? although i want to be able to get the practical experiance while doing this course, i know it's a lot of money but as a mum of young twins i can't afford the childcare fee's for college. SOMEONE MUST have something good to say about this? i'm getting very worried that i have made a big mistake. (saw them advertised on TV by the way)

These course are what they are you will probably get your 6129
But for nvq 2 and 3 you will have to be working as they are mostly site visites to see your work
I don't know how they can get around this
But in a real world like a lot have said on this forum if you have not got the experiance you will not get a job
Plumbing is a hard job you won't learn it all from books you need to be doing it day in day out to learn
£5700 is a lot of money if you can't afford it I don't know where you come from but I'd personally recomend you don't waste your hard earned money
If you realy want to be a plumber go to your local collage see what courses they do try basic plumbing course it you like it carry on and try to get an apprentice with a local firm it won't be easy in today's climate but you can only try
I'd hate to see anyone ripped off but especially a mother
All the best
Gray

 

[stecunners]

cancel cancel cancel...phone them and tell them you have changed your mind,write to them and send it recorded delivery,once barclays partner finance pay them 5770 you will never be able to get out of the agreement....you only get a week to cool off so do it now,trust me i have tried everyhing to cancel but i cant get out of it and they WILL let you down big time.....good luck

 

[robdavis]

Ok.....having only NOW heard about this train for trade SCAM business i'm very worried...signed up (enrolled) yesterday...paid my £100 enrollment fee, signed up for the NVQ level 3 course at £5700..i'm REALLY concerned...WILL i get the qualification's i need? although i want to be able to get the practical experiance while doing this course, i know it's a lot of money but as a mum of young twins i can't afford the childcare fee's for college. SOMEONE MUST have something good to say about this? i'm getting very worried that i have made a big mistake. (saw them advertised on TV by the way)

Hi,

I know how you feel, I have two kids of my own and it was imprative that I made the right choices. I cannot take time off to go to college either and I signed up to this course.

It's not a scam. They really will get you qualified to the right level. I fouind the payments reasonable, I pay £80 a month, and no interest is added.

What people are complaining about mainly is that when you finish, employers may be dubious of your skills because you didn't do it the traditional way.

However! I personally think that if you work hard, learn the trade, practice as much as you can and pass your exams you would be as good as someone who went through an apprenticeship. (Plus I imagine you will be more passionate to succeed).

It's a combination of the lack of work out there and the smeared reputation of many 'fast track' courses out there which give people the willies.

It of course is up to you what you want to do.

I'm nearly ready for week 3 and 4 which is about half way through I guess. I'm really enjoying it. I can't complain: There's lots of competitions on where you can win substantial amounts of money, you get tool-kit vouchers (mine were worth £200 from Rothenberger) the practical training is well structured and intensive, the modules are well written and informative, tutors are available if you have any questions and you get to study at your own pace.

It's up to you what you do with it after you finish, if you are smart and get your name out there effectively, what is stoping you from succeeding?

I have found, after reading a lot of these forums and threads, that most people call 'scam' because they aren't really sure they want to be a plumber and then can't get their money back or because theres loads of time-served plumbers scaring everyone that the certificates aren't worth anything. (experience is most valuable)

I disagree that the certificates aren't worth anything. This course really is hard to get through and the exams are not easy. They make you learn properly. I have completed my water regs, and half of the level 2 cert exams and I really had to know my stuff to pass them. In fact, I almost feel ready to get out there now.

 

[Backboiler]

Well said Rob. I completed my 6129 last April and I was well impressed with everything from the theory to the practical. Look as it as a sound foundation to furthering your desire.

 

[plumbobjohnson]

I am glad I found this thread particularly because I first registered to reply to another thread on the forum from someone who says their name is joanna calling t4ts a scam. I have seen lots of similar postings on various boards and forums as the starter to new threads all using similar phrases. Most, I reckon are nothing more than spoof postings from people with an agenda, maybe even a bit of stirring from rival companies. My experiences with this company (got nvq2, into gas on nvq3) have been totally different from the impressions given by these posters. The stuff I read and the claims made are just idiotic. Take a look at some of them and ask yourselves "is that right or might they just be less bright than they thought they were or just looking for an excuse to back out because money got tighter?"
Check them out and make your own mind up on the validity but base it on the facts. The company responds to enquiries so someone must have requested details either from a flyer, tv advert, jobsearch site or jobcentre. I found them on totaljobs. Then they will have had a phone call to check if enquiry genuine and a few questions are asked before deciding if an appointment is needed to give details of course and to check if the person is suitable. At the interview stage I was asked all sorts of questions about my motivations and reasons to want to be a plumber, what i was doing, looking for workwise, what my plans were if i got the course and a good amount of detail to make sure i really wanted to change my direction in life by retraining. Then the guy explained how the studies were done so i could decide if the training methods suited me. I saw a dvd showing me the facilities and the 3d software. Then, when I said it looked right for me he explained prices and explained how the funding worked. I knew how much in total, at zero percent, how much a month and over how long. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. When i agreed to go ahead (two days later after researching) I gave details for a credit search but since i was unemployed i couldnt expect a main bank to help so i was accepted by another provider who still took me on to help me even though my rating was fairly poor. Couldnt have done it otherwise and certainly not in one go. Paid my registration fee of £100 and got my course starter. Havent looked back, good support, easy way to get the same qualifications as college but to nvq3 which they dont do at a normal college. NO CON NO SCAM

 

[plumbobjohnson]

Did all the parts of 6129 but had to take my time over it because i got a job that made it difficult to get time off. I go to Southampton, so far its taken me just over a year but thats cos i had to take the job and recover some income for the family's sake. Not going to get into a long thread about the company, just so fed up seeing people knock it when it works well for me, and I know most of the whingers are probably just people struggling to do the theory looking for an excuse to get out of the finance. Its hard to do in parts but giving up and blaming or defaming others for their own failure just seems stupid. If it was dodgy why would Barclays be dealing with them? Aren't they ofsted inspected too? The cdf company who did my funding have to be registered with the fsa (I checked their registration) so as far as I am concerned it all seems to be exactly as I was told. The agent I saw told me everything I wanted to know and I even have his contact number and spoke to him twice with questions. Maybe the problem for others is seeing an agent who didnt explain things as well as my bloke did but I am happy with how its going. Everybody thinking of doing the course should maybe ask loads of questions like I did to make sure they understand everything first. Make your own minds up and look into the real reasons behind some of those complaints as most look a bit dubious and planted. That other thread looks that way.

Anyway thats me done, rant over. Whoever you go with good luck.

 

[truemanufan]

I am also with t4ts and think they have been amazin! No problems like all these old school people on here avin a good old whinge about it! I think I have learnt an awful lot at my own pace and able to learn practically at my own pace to! Doing all of this while holding down a full time job too so put the hours in and it will pay off!

 

[truemanufan]

Good luck to all doin courses like these ones!

 

[heinz57]

Good luck trying to find a job in this climate once you all finish ya 20 day training courses, try explaining to an employer while your better than a bloke who's done a 3 year hands on apprenticeship.

 

[truemanufan]

Cheers heinz it's hard enough to get on with it without people like u always putting downer on things! We can't all afford to retrain full time!

 

[plumbobjohnson]

Hey Heinz, is 57 your IQ?

Our training includes a comprehensive section of business training so we dont have to look for a job, or rely on others. The purpose is to get us starting our own business by being self employed. You obviously know nothing about the course or what it involves. Sorry, but your downer attitude is typical, maybe your life is negative but keep it to yourself eh?

To some the pint pot is half full, to some its half empty but negative people like you seem to just want to take away the pot from others.

 

[plumbobjohnson]

And Mr Neggy Heinz, the course is based over 11 weeks of full on practical after a very comprehensive theory training. WE learn how to avoid making mistakes by learning not just how to do it properly, but also by learning all of the potential mistakes and their consequences so we dont make them in the first place. Your 3 year hands on guys get 3 years of learning from their mistakes in the customers homes with most of the theory being given by the guys they work with, thats not necessarily a high standard of training; thats less than reassuring isnt it. That 3 years is mostly spent as slave labour anyway, doing the grunt work with very little real training except for the college nvq2 day release so its nothing to boast about. Very 1970's "good enough for my father and his father" attitude. New standards and new techniques seem to have left you behind somewhat but nevermind. If you dont properly understand it your opinion is not really worth considering in the greater scheme of things.