True Story Oil Boiler prosecution

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

first time to disagree with Mrs tp but how can you accuse an enforcement officer of slander/libel when your in the wrong!

Nice to know we often agree.

I could well be wrong - oil doesn't figure in our business.
My sympathy is with TOM only as far as if what I have read in the pdf is true - often there can be more to a story. ---- didn't I say that.

I think although you have to be GSR to do gas work you do not have to be OFTEC registered to do oil?
I read somewhere that those who are oftec registered can self-certify under competent person scheme - just like we do for gas boilers.
And those who are not oftec must notify building control before they start a job.

So what have I said that is wrong - not as opinion but in terms of process, rules & legislation?

I am doing a Building control notice right now (yes i work late) - for a wall we are taking down next week.
If i didn't tell BC but they later found out TP did it I expect they would take issue with me and the company, not the labourers who will do the actual work.

From what I have read Tom was working as subcontractor and he did not make any contractural arrangements with the homeowner.

 

[SimonG]

Anybody competent can work on oil, but you must be oftec (or associated competent person scheme) to commission the boiler. However if a non oftec person is installing then they should apply to building control and pay there fee. Surely if what is in the pdf is to be believed and you have gained a quite substantial contract for installing oil boilers and having supposedly completed the necessary training that you would go the further step and get yourself to a competent person scheme. Or at the very least ensure that there is a notification in place before commencing the install. Especially as the notification number goes on the paperwork.

The op and the thread just don't sit right.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

The op and the thread just don't sit right.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I know you and Lame know your stuff.
I am only commenting on what I read at face value.

The thread was far more entertaining before I read the pdf!

 

[Dotty]

^^^^^ I agree.

If this guy won that contract then why not join the competent persons scheme - oftec in this case - if only to cover his own aristotle?

 

[SimonG]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I know you and Lame know your stuff.
I am only commenting on what I read at face value.

The thread was far more entertaining before I read the pdf!

I was just trying to expand a bit on the oil side.

But going back to entertaining bit, the pdf was in his first post along with a little please read and answer the questions at the end. How anybody edits the post to remove the pdf and put something completely different in there beats me.

The op, or Tom as I now call him, summed it up nicely by saying they would defend themself in court. Man of many talents? Or looking to save money on all 'corners'.

 

[Dotty]

Mmmmm. Something doesn't ring right but I'm letting it run.

Does reinforce my opinion that oftec should enjoy the same powers as gas safe. The devastating effects of a problem on an oil installation can be as bad as one on a gas installation.

 

[dancinplumba]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I know you and Lame know your stuff.
I am only commenting on what I read at face value.

The thread was far more entertaining before I read the pdf!

naughty naughty tara

 

[Bunker]

However if a non oftec person is installing then they should apply to building control and pay there fee. ......Or at the very least ensure that there is a notification in place before commencing the install.

Im not suo sure about this. As far as I understand it, anyone able to prove competence (Tom completed his 101 certificates etc) can install and its then his duty to organise the commissioning, or make note on the CD10 who is tasked with this. Building Control only need to get involved if no OFTEC commissioner is being arranged, see attached scan excerpt from CD10:

I cant see that he has done anything wrong and the usual 'string em up and beat 'em' thread is a bit harsh.

 

[lame plumber]

prove me wrong but to prove competence you have to have done your 101 etc AND belong to a registered body, which is required for tank installation and commissioning boilers. If you have a large contract with the council, they would want you to have these sorted out to cover their backsides as well. Someone isnt telling the whole story somewhere if the building regs enforcement officer is intervening and willing to prosecute, theres more than has been told so far to this story.

 

[Bunker]

I think you only need to be in a Competent Person Scheme if you are wanting to self-certify:

https://www.gov.uk/building-regulations-competent-person-schemes

 

[lame plumber]

and risk assess for tank installs, but god I hate going in after a plumber installs an oily boiler and tell the customer what needs to be done to commission it!!

 

[SimonG]

Im not suo sure about this. As far as I understand it, anyone able to prove competence (Tom completed his 101 certificates etc) can install and its then his duty to organise the commissioning, or make note on the CD10 who is tasked with this. Building Control only need to get involved if no OFTEC commissioner is being arranged, see attached scan excerpt from CD10:

I cant see that he has done anything wrong and the usual 'string em up and beat 'em' thread is a bit harsh.

CD11 asks for completed CD/11 by oftec engineer or building control notification number.

 

[SimonG]

I cant see that he has done anything wrong and the usual 'string em up and beat 'em' thread is a bit harsh.

He knows he's done wrong, and as for beat em I only need an address. The op is a bell, and to be brutally honest deserves everything coming.

Oil needs to be taken as serious as gas, with a bit of luck the more idiots that go on like the op might just get us there.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

i smell spam

 

[SimonG]

i smell spam

That's strange. I'm having chicken

 

[kimbo]

The regulations are clear you either have to belong to a competent persons scheme( passing all the exams is not sufficient) such as Oftec to install and commission, if you arent you can still install but you must apply to building control first.( for a fee). When you have finished the install the building inspector will check to make sure it complies, you can then ask an oftec engineer to commission it, he will need your oftec registration number or building control number to fill out the cd/11
Simples

 

[Bunker]

The regulations are clear you either have to belong to a competent persons scheme( passing all the exams is not sufficient) such as Oftec to install and commission

im not being difficult but please back that up with a quote because I can't find that sort of clarity anywhere except in opinion.

 

[lame plumber]

im not being difficult but please back that up with a quote because I can't find that sort of clarity anywhere except in opinion.

british standards stipulate this and if you ask the oftec inspector he'll showyou the paperwork, coz i asked on his first visit and he showed me it in black and white. cant remember the number now though

 

[kimbo]

Check your oftec book you might find some other info that might be of use. Its surprising what you forget

 

[lame plumber]

Check your oftec book you might find some other info that might be of use. Its surprising what you forget

which expensive waste of money oftec manual are you on about, 5 volumes that could be reduced to 1 without losing any information at all.

 

[neily01]

Not really what the thread is about but got some interesting info from a rep the other day,I think it was Titan are about to bring out a new tank that is metal outside and plastic inside that would ditch most of the regs for tank placement. Could be handy.

 

[Bunker]

So it's just opinion at the moment then. I found the following which, among other official type articles I've found, only uses the word "should" which is usually legally defined as non mandatory as opposed to 'must' or 'shall'.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/boilersheating/

I can feel a lot of you rolling your eyes but its so important. I'm OFTEC and fully support it should be further legislated, but I can't find any governing body saying installs MUST be this and that. These potential loopholes ought to be tightened up.

 

[chris watkins]

These competent person scheme providers will say & do almost anything to justify why you should join them paying a big fat fee, when if you read part L & the domestic heating compliance guide you clearly do not have to belong to there gang & there are other ways of complying (issuing a Building Notice to give notice & then using 3rd party forms for installation & commissioning).
Beware of inspectors showing you sections in there own manuals of what is required as this may not be what the Law states.

Not having a go, just pointing out that BS are code of practise not statute.

 

[lame plumber]

and when it all goes wrong the legal eagles refer to the codes of practice when prosecuting you. the highway code is a code of practice and not law, but you still get prosecuted for not obeying the highway code!! just explaining how your downfall may occur one day if you get it wrong

 

[kimbo]

If you check your tech book 3 annexe1 building regs state it in blak and white