Ufh 50 zones !!?

[on31ll]

Anybody know of a controller able to control 5 manifolds with 10 zones on each manifold


back story is its installed in a church 5 manifolds on the wall all fed off a domestic boiler. All manifolds fed in 22mm. The church left the heating on for 3 days solid and it moved up one degree !!!!!

 

[Killy Bing]

That's alarm bells
Did you install it?
Does it have a low loss header?
How many kW is the boiler?

From the sound of it you want to pair the loops into large zones!!!

 

[Ray Stafford]

back story is its installed in a church 5 manifolds on the wall all fed off a domestic boiler. All manifolds fed in 22mm. The church left the heating on for 3 days solid and it moved up one degree !!!!!

I would be asking for the PI insurance details for the M&E consultant who designed it.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

Sounds horrendously undersized...
Last church we done was fed off to 80kw boilers.

 

[missplumb]

There definitely a design fault some where.

 

[on31ll]

Well i want to link the zones out. No i didnt design or build that. Fed off a domestic 70kw boiler when. I go there ill take pictures its up there with bad installs.

No low loss header. Flow amd return straight into 5 manifolds

 

[Ray Stafford]

domestic 70kw boiler

Not your average domestic boiler then?

 

[Killy Bing]

First things first that will never heat up....

Till the mixers reach temp their pumps will be pulling through the boiler!!!
5x a ups2......

That's going to exceed the max flow rate of the boiler massively and strip the heat too quickly

 

[on31ll]

Sorry just a domestic 42kw. I was reading the post of the two 70kws.


Anyone suggest best ways to plumb this in. Im thinking two boilers. Low loss header. Need to sort pumping out though.

 

[Killy Bing]

Get a firm in to do a independent heat calc and have them guarantee that.
Then compare to the underfloor spec and see if it's man enough, if not you'll need an auxiliary heat source for the warm up imho like the fanned myson rads.

your manifolds all want their flow and returns going to a manifold straight off the llh.

They can pull from there then and not the boiler, will give it half a chance to heat up!

 

[on31ll]

Anybody got an idea on a system that can control alot of zones ?

 

[Killy Bing]

I think that domestically the Honeywell evohome with 5 manifold kits could handle 50 zones although I'm assuming you have one or two stats per manifold ? . However that's gonna be pricy

 

[on31ll]

Ill have to have a look at it. Work out whats needed. The whole jobs not going to be cheap anyway. Its a real mess

 

[on31ll]

In theory could i fit a zone valve to the flow on each of the 5 manifold and have each manifold as a zone. On a thermostat ?

Seems that would be alot easier. Really need to map out each one of these 50 zones

 

[Killy Bing]

What's currently opening the actuators and turning the pumps on?

 

[on31ll]

There isnt. Just maifolds and pumps on fused spurs

 

[Killy Bing]

...... Oh my...... That's awful....

You need to do the lot man.
Adding controls to the manifolds won't make any difference until the plant is sorted.

And that boiler will be ruined in no time with that flow firing though it.

Needs hydraulic separation desperately

 

[on31ll]

What im thinking is two boilers. Low loss header. Possibly linking out the zones to bring down the amount of zones abit.

But need to sort out controls for them too.

Maybe run 3 john guest set ups or somthing. Thats why i was thinking of using zone valves. On room stats.

 

[Killy Bing]

I'll draw you a diagram of how I would do it tomorrow sir

 

[on31ll]

Why thank you kind sir

 

[Ray Stafford]

At the risk of sounding rude, (not my intention at all, honestly!) this job has already been cocked up by someone who didn't have the requisite skills and experience to do it right.

I'm not sure that a bit of consultation on UKPF, however well intentioned, is going to correct that problem. With the greatest respect, the client deserves someone with a deeper level of experience of this type of install.

Sometimes, the greatest wisdom is having the self knowledge to say "I don't know".

 

[lame plumber]

Ray speaks the truth, got to say I like to walk away from anything more complicated than 4 beds and a lounge/diner. But I have seen a lot of awful installs by some who have a little knowledge, theres nothing worse than coming across an ufh system where the floors are to hot to walk on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[on31ll]

Ive fitted on alot bigger scale than this but i never had to spec a system to control 50 zones. My original question was about that. I asked advice to compare to what i have already thought.

If i come across like im asking people to do the work for me then its come across wrong. I do alot of churchs and alot have sabinana convectors combined with ufh but the zones are no where 50. Since im not ripping the floor up ive gotta work with whats there.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Ive fitted on alot bigger scale than this but i never had to spec a system to control 50 zones. My original question was about that. I asked advice to compare to what i have already thought.

If i come across like im asking people to do the work for me then its come across wrong. I do alot of churchs and alot have sabinana convectors combined with ufh but the zones are no where 50. Since im not ripping the floor up ive gotta work with whats there.

Fair enough. As I said, it was intended in a positive spirit.

 

[Nostrum]

If it's a church then you'll probably not need multi zone control as it will be a couple of huge spaces that require miles of pipe.

It's quite likely that the floor heating won't provide a sufficient amount of heat to match the losses in the winter anyway. Most underfloor can't achieve the type of outputs an old type church would require.

I would be preparing to offer a compromise as opposed to a solution before you accept any works on this one, the fundamentals could be all wrong.