Un-sleeved gas pipe, landlord saftey check.

[ShaunCorbs]

thing is the appliance in question is the gas meter so your turning off the gas meter ?

 

[Harvest Fields]

thing is the appliance in question is the gas meter so your turning off the gas meter ?

I get that. And I know what you are saying. But it doesn’t say cap off.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I get that. And I know what you are saying. But it doesn’t say cap off.

the effect is the same tho a customer with no gas

 

[sammathias]

Still wouldn't cap the meter tho

 

[Harvest Fields]

the effect is the same tho a customer with no gas

Yes. But one is capped (ID) or isolated (AR)

Edit due to bad grammar and beer

 

[Harvest Fields]

I’m so glad this is in a closed group. Otherwise no one would trust any of us

 

[wattsie1987]

The main point here is the fact of the location, because it's in meter box there is unregulated gas pressure (up to 75mb) which could potentially have a much higher leakage rate. Also no dilution with air will take place in a meter box. The key point is that prevention should be in place to stop that entering the building in the result of a leak. Ie the sealing in this instance is more important than the sleeve providing no deteriation of pipework.

As it stands its AR and turn off. Sealing it would lead it to be non compliant and advise customer regarding sleeve.

If it wasn't in a meter box it would just be non compliant regardless of sleeve or seal.

Hope this helps!

 

[Harvest Fields]

The main point here is the fact of the location, because it's in meter box there is unregulated gas pressure (up to 75mb) which could potentially have a much higher leakage rate. Also no dilution with air will take place in a meter box. The key point is that prevention should be in place to stop that entering the building in the result of a leak. Ie the sealing in this instance is more important than the sleeve providing no deteriation of pipework.

As it stands its AR and turn off. Sealing it would lead it to be non compliant and advise customer regarding sleeve.

If it wasn't in a meter box it would just be non compliant regardless of sleeve or seal.

Hope this helps!

The point about the meter box is the point I was making and the reason I was asking which gas pipe. But thanks for the support.

 

[Old Account]

Nah, ID capped , AR turned off , with the owners permission of course .

If owner disagrees with AR turning off, do I need to fill out a form and attach a label and what should I do then if they don’t let me turning the appliance off when having AR ?

When having ID i will cap the meter or the appliance with customers permission, issuing a form and label it. If customers doesn’t want me I would need to call transco don’t I ?

I just want to be sure as I never done that but perhaps one day I come across something like this.

Thanks

 

[Harvest Fields]

@Matchless.plumb I cannot go through all this again mate. Really sorry. But the short version is if customer refuses either an isolation (AR) or disconnect (ID) (a cap off is not a disconnect which is needed for an ID) you call CADENT not Transco. Hope this makes sense if not I will type it all again and try to word it better

 

[townfanjon]

Just to chuck another spanner in the works , I did my ACS last week and couldn't believe what the assessor was saying ... this is new ish , I didnt know.

Only for certain AR’s , if whatever you are AR-ing doesn't actually remove the risk , you can leave the appliance on !!!! Its in the new niceic books .

 

[Harvest Fields]

Just to chuck another spanner in the works , I did my ACS last week and couldn't believe what the assessor was saying . this is new ish , I didnt know.

Only for certain AR’s , if whatever you are AR-ing doesn't actually remove the risk , you can leave the appliance on !!!! Its in the new niceic books .

But you still have to leave a notice and it is still AR?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sorry I was wrong for once

 

[townfanjon]

But you still have to leave a notice and it is still AR?

Yep a signed notice but no sticker , I honestly thought he was joking

 

[Harvest Fields]

Sorry I was wrong for once

If that’s the case mate. It definitely doesn’t happen often. You are one of the first people I would come to for advice as I know that you have a wealth of experience and knowledge (a heck of a lot more than me) the reason I was pushing so much was it is what I had drummed into me for years when I was on the cards. I panicked for a second that I had been doing it wrong all this time. But the rules are constantly changing so we are all wrong at some point.

 

[sammathias]

Must not of had his weetabix that morning.

 

[sammathias]

Only for certain AR’s , if whatever you are AR-ing doesn't actually remove the risk , you can leave the appliance on !!!! Its in the new niceic books .

I don't quite understand... Surely everything your at risking...by isolating the appliance it's going to remove the risk or am I being thick?

 

[townfanjon]

I don't quite understand... Surely everything your at risking...by isolating the appliance it's going to remove the risk or am I being thick?

No your not , I thought exactly the same thing when I heard it , as we went through the re-assessment they would ask AR , turn off ? leave on ? . No joke this

Eg ( copied out off book ) no AECV at point of entry into a building where one is required, that is AR but its AR “leave on”

 

[jefaz]

No your not , I thought exactly the same thing when I heard it , as we went through the re-assessment they would ask AR , turn off ? leave on ? . No joke this

Eg ( copied out off book ) no AECV at point of entry into a building where one is required, that is AR but its AR “leave on”

It’s called ‘AR no action’ and the best example I can give you is a built over PE service. Dropping the handle will not in any way reduce the risk as it’s upstream of the ECV, however the situation is still AR
AR No Action has been around for a little while.

 

[dan_the_plumber]

There is no ‘Not to current standards’ anymore!
This is clearly ‘At Risk’ follow GIUSP and cover your bum :/

 

[Darren Jackson]

I re-sat my ACS in April and as Townfan says There is now two classifications of AR! and the full removal of NCS.
But & This is quoted from my nice new shiny book "That said for those who feel uneasy with this stance, the recording of NCS issues may still be undertaken, but by using the businesses own internal documentation/procedures & using their own engineering judgement on the advice to give".
The second procedural change sees the introduction of a new and second AR classification for those gas installations, which have the potential to be unsafe but where turning-off the affected installation WILL NOT remove the danger. These scenarios will be rare but where encountered gas operatives' need to classify the installation as:
'AR' but DO NOT turn-off the gas installation.
DO NOT attach a warning Label.
DO complete a warning notice.
Do advise the responsible person to contact either there gas supplier or the National Emergency Service Provider (ESP).

So looking at the first post I would be thinking "Hmmm unsleeved gas pipe, well that's now an AR classification so which AR is it? OK if I turn off the Appliance/installation is the risk removed? Err scratch of head Errrr... Well yes if I turn it off then the risk is removed, so I follow the AR procedure that is where an appliance/installation which if operated or left connected to the gas supply MAY IN THE FUTURE CONSTITUTE A DANGER.
So then I explain the situation to the customer stating it is AR, The appliance/installation MUST NOT BE USED until the situation has been rectified & with their permission either repair there & then. Or if it cannot be repaired immediately then affix a DO NOT USE label, Turn off the appliance/installation & complete a warning notice, ask customer to sign it to prove you turned it off & leave a copy on site. If customer refuses to sign or refuses to let you turn off the appliance/installation record this on your notice and leave the site. You do not however remove fuses or cap off the supply for AR, just simply turn off the appliance or the ECV. record it and leave. If they choose to turn it back on after you have left then so be it, you have done all you are legally obliged to do and that's all you can do for an AR situation.