Underfloor heating - Cylinder unexpected expansion

[chris watkins]

He still could run the system but need significant changes.

How much heating capacity are you going to get out of cylinder full of hot water fed with an immersion run from a wind turbine, then Ryan ?

 

[lame plumber]

How much heating capacity are you going to get out of cylinder full of hot water fed with an immersion run from a wind turbine, then Ryan ?

bugger all when its snowing and you need it

 

[Koogatubac]

Hardly a full bath. I did a mansion all ran off solely AIR SOURCE, absolute joke... 3 cylinders which split the mansion and doesn't supply enough hot water for 1 bath. Immersions have to be on constant...

Renewables doesnt live up to much i dont think.
Any views?

 

[Reg Man]

OOp's this don't look good. Need more information to give constructive comment.

 

[chris watkins]

Hardly a full bath. I did a mansion all ran off solely AIR SOURCE, absolute joke... 3 cylinders which split the mansion and doesn't supply enough hot water for 1 bath. Immersions have to be on constant...

Renewables doesnt live up to much i dont think.
Any views?

Like all these things they have to be designed correctly !!!! Just like the subject of this thread.

 

[Ryan LPS]

How much heating capacity are you going to get out of cylinder full of hot water fed with an immersion run from a wind turbine, then Ryan ?

As long as the immersion is capable of heating the cylinder, then in theory there would be no reason why you couldn't use the cylinder as a buffer system. But this is only based on the immersion heater working fully

 

[chris watkins]

But 3kW in = 3kW out (or at the very best 3000 W or about 30M sq of U/F) ignore - the buffer tank, the fact that the wind does not blow all the time, that there will be electrical generating losses, that there will be hot water losses / standing losses.
As lame says what will it do when there is some snow around ?
Don't mean to have a go Ryan but just can't see how it will ever work unless we have got the size of this turbine & immersion heater/s all wrong (just like I am guessing the OP did).

 

[Ryan LPS]

No Chris I totally agree mate if this is designed wrong then it won't work hence why I said if the turbine is capable but you will need like you say a constant 3kw or a higher I.e bigger turbine at the moment we are all guessing... They could be even using 12 or 24v immersion heaters. But it all comes down to correct sizing

 

[chris watkins]

No Chris I totally agree mate if this is designed wrong then it won't work hence why I said if the turbine is capable but you will need like you say a constant 3kw or a higher I.e bigger turbine at the moment we are all guessing... They could be even using 12 or 24v immersion heaters. But it all comes down to correct sizing

Whats the kW rating of these low voltage heater Ryan ? I have heard of people using PV to heat domestic hot water in a direct cylinder but not using wind power.

 

[Ryan LPS]

I think the biggest is 24v @ 1000kw but I don't normal dont get into the wind side the other engineers do I'm biomass, solar thermal and gas. And done a bit of ground source but iv done a lil in wind and normally you would always have a solid back up such biomass or wood fire. or even solar PV or solar thermal would work better

 

[snowhead]

How much heating capacity are you going to get out of cylinder full of hot water fed with an immersion run from a wind turbine, then Ryan ?

I suspect this is a secondary "Free heat" system, 120mtrs U/F won't do much in a full house.
I assume there is a Gas or oil boiler in normal use as well.

 

[Reg Man]

Hardly a full bath. I did a mansion all ran off solely AIR SOURCE, absolute joke... 3 cylinders which split the mansion and doesn't supply enough hot water for 1 bath. Immersions have to be on constant...

Renewables doesnt live up to much i dont think.
Any views?

Steady on. Air source gets bad press on the forum, but this is down to some peep's who don't install them appropriately and those that don't know how they should be operated. I have air source and it works brilliantly. By the way, I am not in the air source renewable business just gas, plumbing and electrical.

 

[SimonG]

Sounds a bit engineery diy.

 

[Reg Man]

Research and development some may say.

 

[Howsie]

Sounds a bit engineery diy.

 

[MURRAY]

Hello again. To explain further- the property is an office (converted mill building) fully insulated and with a floor space of approx 36m2, as such heat requirement is low. I hope to build a house directly adjacent to the office, over the next 5 years and the idea was to connect the UFH of the office to the larger house system. I.e the office would be one loop off the house manifold. Currently though I need to heat the office standalone. I was looking for a temporary and relatively cost efficient solution. As there is no other hot water requirement within the office a closed system was suggested with the heating water direct from the cylinder. As electric is free but intermittent it was thought that a standard hot water cylinder would suffice with a 3kw immersion. This also provided a buffer for when the turbine was not operating (a 20kw turbine which I must admit is very rarely stationary during the winter when heat is required)
To be fair the plumber did say this was not a conventional system but he thought it would work. Whilst not a plumber, hence why I employ one, I am now intrigued as to why it failed. More to the point though I now need to know what the solution might be. Assuming the pipework is ok from and too the cylinder (not sure if the pump between mixing valve and Cylinder required) what do I need in terms of a cylinder, pressure vessel, water tank etc for it to work?? There is no space for a watertank in the loft although there might be scope for a small tank just above and to the side of the cylinder. Any comments much appreciated.

thanks

 

[lame plumber]

go to a heating firm that specializes in renewables and knows what they are about rather than thinks they know for a proper assessment of what is required and what it would cost and youll save money in the long term by spending a bit more initially, especially as you have a rather interesting failed system at present.

 

[Reg Man]

In summary you have an open vented hot water vessel on an unvented system. That is more than likely to have caused the failure and is an extremely dangerous situation. You are extremely lucky that the vessel failed without causing major damage.

 

[Koogatubac]

Before you do ANYTHING post pictures SO WE CAN HELP YOUUUU
Mucho loveo

 

[mountainman]

Failing that, contact the publishers of the Darwin Awards and they may serialize your progress towards the probable conclusion.

 

[Ryan LPS]

Murray where are you located and we really need picture to see what's going on

 

[Ryan LPS]

Tbh if you are getting 20kw supply then all I can see is you have put a vented cylinder in where should of been a unvented with all the the correct safeties in place

 

[stevetheplumber]

from what i can make out your using the cylinder as a heat store heated by electicity but the plumber has sealed the system you need to remove the exspansion vessel and fill the system via a header tank with a vent over it

 

[stevetheplumber]

from what i can make out your using the cylinder as a heat store heated by electicity but the plumber has sealed the system you need to remove the exspansion vessel and fill the system via a header tank with a vent over it

and you will probably need a new cylinder

 

[Gray0689]

Hello again. To explain further- the property is an office (converted mill building) fully insulated and with a floor space of approx 36m2, as such heat requirement is low. I hope to build a house directly adjacent to the office, over the next 5 years and the idea was to connect the UFH of the office to the larger house system. I.e the office would be one loop off the house manifold. Currently though I need to heat the office standalone. I was looking for a temporary and relatively cost efficient solution. As there is no other hot water requirement within the office a closed system was suggested with the heating water direct from the cylinder. As electric is free but intermittent it was thought that a standard hot water cylinder would suffice with a 3kw immersion. This also provided a buffer for when the turbine was not operating (a 20kw turbine which I must admit is very rarely stationary during the winter when heat is required)
To be fair the plumber did say this was not a conventional system but he thought it would work. Whilst not a plumber, hence why I employ one, I am now intrigued as to why it failed. More to the point though I now need to know what the solution might be. Assuming the pipework is ok from and too the cylinder (not sure if the pump between mixing valve and Cylinder required) what do I need in terms of a cylinder, pressure vessel, water tank etc for it to work?? There is no space for a watertank in the loft although there might be scope for a small tank just above and to the side of the cylinder. Any comments much appreciated.

thanks

Sounds like you got an idiot as a plumber
Post your location and there may be someone on forum that can sort it out for you and show your so called plumber the error of his ways