unvented discharge pipe

[eddiebrown424]

Hi Guys,

Couple of quik questions.

Went to look at an unvented cylinder today that is about 20 yers old.

discharge pipe terminates in the airing cupboard onto the floor. As it is an old peoples place and in a communal area (laundry) I would like to re route it. There is no way I can get this outside it is to far to maiintain fall. However there is an internal drain around 3 meteres away. I readthat the discharge pipe can terminate here as the tundish will suffice in showing there is a problem.

is this right?

I realise that there may be an issue with smells but also read that a HEPVO trap can be used to stop this. I know plastic UPVC pipe can be used to carry the disharge are these facts right.

Thanks

eddie

 

[AWheating]

Speak to local building control, you must be certain the waste system can take the temps. read part g of the regs, it tells you most of what you need to know.

 

[Centralheatking]

Dead right get the La to specify and you carry out the work to their spec.

It could be a good profitable job if you handle it properly - right upmy street CHK

t iQUOTE=AWheating;668297]Speak to local building control, you must be certain the waste system can take the temps. read part g of the regs, it tells you most of what you need to know.[/QUOTE]

 

[eddiebrown424]

Thnks guys

 

[eddiebrown424]

last bit..... if i used plastic or copper under screed what depth does it need to go.... is this still up to the building control it seems to be quite a big job.....

Eddie

 

[chris watkins]

Hi Eddie
Please don't take this the wrong way but you have got your Part G & if so have you done the update since the changes in 2010 ?

The only plastic that can be used is the push fit stuff both types of solvent weld (uPVC & ABS) are not allowed.

Is the gully trapped ? is so, are you going to discharge the waste above the water line, again if so you will not need to trap it again.

You are right about the tun dish being the only OK as the only visible point to see discharge solong as it is positioned so it can be seen with easy.

 

[eddiebrown424]

Hi Chris,

Didn't take it the wrong way mate. I was sent to the job blind and am trying to send quality report in my boss has g3 training. The drain is a man hole (sorry ermintrude a person hole maybe) so was going to advise punchig through if allowed by building regs and putting a trap on below the tundish. Guess copper would be a better option rather than barrier pipe as it burried and would need a couple of fittings. I am not going to do anything illegal nd appreciate the concern.

Eddie

 

[chris watkins]

Not barrier pipe (you can use this if to class S) but push fit waste pipe like they sell at B&Poo cos it is made from polypropylene & will take the heat.
Busting into MH's (Part H) as others have said you will need to speak to BC.

 

[Ermintrude]

It's an inspection chamber. Or a man hole . But you can't just discharge into a man entry . Needs to be internal or external backdrop.

 

[Best]

Seems strange your boss has the G3 qualification but sends you to make out a report - surely all you can do is survey the whole thing in detail, ideally perhaps with a few photos & let your boss sort it all out & tell you what is required?

 

[eddiebrown424]

Hi Best....

Its not that strange really :vanish: I get sent out as a plumber to stranger things believe me.....

i was thinking to myself that if I can give them a good report on what needs doing and the customer is ok with the price to change the cylinder (as the internal air gap seems on the way out) the company may put me through g3 training so as I an carry out the job. Everyones a winner customers prob sorted, company make money and I get the training..........

 

[townfanjon]

Going back to the earlier posts about building control, our building control wouldn't have a chuffing clue if you asked them what pipe you would use for a discharge pipe, personally I would just read g3 again and wouldn't waste my time phoning building control.

 

[chris watkins]

Hi Best....

Its not that strange really :vanish: I get sent out as a plumber to stranger things believe me.....

i was thinking to myself that if I can give them a good report on what needs doing and the customer is ok with the price to change the cylinder (as the internal air gap seems on the way out) the company may put me through g3 training so as I an carry out the job. Everyones a winner customers prob sorted, company make money and I get the training..........

Enough already - Eddie,
Your lack of knowledge is now cause for concern !!

The customer will not be sorted as you put it, least not to their satisfaction. "internal air gaps" by which I take it you mean the bubble at the top of the cylinder, can not be "on the way out" they either are or they are not, & if not, they can be recharged. If they are not big enough you can always add an expansion vessel.

Now please go & do the Part G ticket, get the training before some one gets hurt or ripped off.

If the boss will not pay for it how about you forking out its not a fortune, think of it as an investment in your skills.

 

[eddiebrown424]

Hi townfanjon

sounds like common sense but i need an up to date copy of G3. Usually get sound advise here hense the thread. Thought there was plastic pipe for H/W systems that ould be glued but on reflection a flexible pipe put throgh trunking would be better as there would be no joints. Think I will look into barrier pipe class if i can find it.

 

[eddiebrown424]

Bit OTT really Chris.... don't you think. I have no qualms paying for it myself if only I constantly did pressurised cylinders.. I have paid for my own training throughout thanks inc the gas but again don't do boilers constantly so the company paid for me to go on the register. I WOULD NOT undertake any work for which I am not deemed as competent and have worked on pressurised systems with others who have commissioned them. I came on here because I noticed a particularly dangerous situation when going to re charge a cylinder which I believe I am able to do as is the customer. With regards to the air gap it keeps failing so my report included options such as fitting an external one... However the cylinder is 20 years old and there are other works such as the discharge pipe that needs addressing (urgently so it may or may not) be worth the customer going to that expense and instead fitting a new cylinder for which I have asked the company to give a price..... I was aware that plastic pipe could now be used and the internal drain is the only realistic option as the outside wall is impossible to access with enough fall on the discharge pipe. NOW if we get the job I will pay for my training if the company won't but I take offence that you state that the customer will get hurt or ripped off. I have recognised a potentially dangerous situation with the discharge looked at options.I have advised them of their options re a new cylinder, external expansion and explained to them the benefits / cons of both. In the interim and within the regs i have resolved their issue of a leaking T&P valve by repressurised the cylinder but this has a history of only lasting a few months.

Thought I had covered all angles and explained risk re discharge pipe terminating internally 3"s of a communal floor the spray back at 3.5 bar would scalled everyone in the area. Still as long as a G3 qualified engineer fitted it eh ?????? Please feel free to reply what you would have done differently as I find your post quite insulting.

 

[Ermintrude]

Eddy your not competent or qualified to undertake the works to the cylinder as if you do one or one hundred thousand unvented cylinders you need to be g3 .suppose u change the odd gas valve and pcb too as your competent?

It is and has been for almost. 20 years for your employer to allow you to work on units your not competent or qualified to work on.

The HSE can now imprison you and your employer for manslaughter and corporate manslaughter. But hey ho let have a go.

 

[eddiebrown424]

No ermintrude I change the odd gas valve and PCB because I am on the gas register does no one on hear bother to read things?????? I am competent to dig up the floor locate and fit pipe work get this to the Tundish where unless as you correctly state Im competent to do so I would get my boss to do up the 35mm compression fitting.... But as I said if we get the job I will do the training.....one way or the other.... why????? because I work within the rules and take offense at your implying that i don't......

Please don't offend and run if you don't or can't be bothered to read things don't jump on the band wagon eh.

This post may appear to be blunt or sarcastic..... Thats because it is..

 

[AlexGas]

i was thinking to myself that if I can give them a good report on what needs doing ...

How are you gonna do it without G3!?

 

[eddiebrown424]

the whole idea of a post peeps (aside from holding up a fence) is that people READ IT.... please can people do so before commenting

 

[Ermintrude]

Sorry Eddie. You are GSR, but so is my mate who only has cookers. I have worked with one to many chancers! As hope u only work on the appliances your qualified to..... We had few Subbies who had ccn1 started to play with everything

 

[AlexGas]

...

 

[eddiebrown424]

with thanks Ermintrude it was the implication that I was a chancer that offended...... I do a responsible job and whilst I acknowledge my limitations would not do anything to endanger myself or others. Saying this life is about learning and expanding knowledge which is why I hit this site.....

 

[eddiebrown424]

with apologies Alex gas if i didn't see the funny side..... some comments here may have made me a bit defensive....... LOL

 

[Ermintrude]

the whole idea of a post peeps (aside from holding up a fence) is that people READ IT.... please can people do so before commenting

Whole idea of competent person scheme, is that the competent person completes all the work. Not just sign it off! Same as the gas saftey installation and use regulations .

 

[AlexGas]

Rule 1 To work on unvented systems – get G3 qual.
Rule 2 If one has no G3 qual but wants to work on unvented systems – see Rule 1.