unvented discharge pipe

[eddiebrown424]

Fair point ermintrude...... but hanging boilers running pipework such as condensate outside flows and returns to boilers etc is often completed by plumbers with the final bits i.e. gas pipe and commissioning completed by a competent person.... This is just a discharge pipe and as I have said if we get the job I have every intention of completing the G3 as the cylinder bit won't go ahead for a while and I need to do it for my piece of mind and of course safety...... Also how many plumbers who wire in and put spurs in for boilers are part p... Another course I have to do darn....... lol

 

[AlexGas]

i was thinking to myself that if I can give them a good report on what needs doing and the customer is ok with the price to change the cylinder (as the internal air gap seems on the way out) the company may put me through g3 training so as I an carry out the job. Everyones a winner customers prob sorted, company make money and I get the training..........

Here’s one for you, Eddie. Just imagine - one of your closest relatives or people want some work done in their house on unvented system. And some dude comes to the door without any qualifications, saying – I’m going to put together a good report to my boss. The question is - What are going to do about it? Will you let this dude into the house or not?

 

[eddiebrown424]

of course not Alexgas..... but I went to the job as a qualified plumber and havent done and will not do anything outside the regs. I feel I am competent to say what needs doing just not doing it which at no point in this post have I said I would do... and wouldn't. My concern was for the welfare of the customer around a dangerous discharge pipe which I have reported to my boss who is G3 qualified. I thought that i would be able to dig the trench and run pipe to main drain internal just not connect to the Tundish.... with apologies if I am wrong. Surely a good job starts with a good report or assessment maybe a good report has been taken out of context. I was trying to speed up the process so as the discharge pipe was put right ASAP as I no it is not to current standards (though I appreciate this terminology ralates to gas) but could have been on the original install. However that being said it needs sorting ASAP as its dangerous in my mind anyway.

 

[AlexGas]

of course not Alexgas..... but I went to the job as a qualified plumber and havent done and will not do anything outside the regs. I feel I am competent to say what needs doing just not doing it which at no point in this post have I said I would do... and wouldn't. My concern was for the welfare of the customer around a dangerous discharge pipe which I have reported to my boss who is G3 qualified. I thought that i would be able to dig the trench and run pipe to main drain internal just not connect to the Tundish.... with apologies if I am wrong.

Get your boss in ASAP!

 

[Ermintrude]

Eddie we don't employ "plumbers" we are a company who sole business is gas space and water heating. If you touch a ch job your either a GSE or working as an apprentice with a GSE.

Plumber is the most misused trade name ever. A plumber is a time served crafts person. Not a bloke with a van set of footprints and trousers covered in silicone and putty. Not saying your one of these but it upsets me the number of absolute twonks who are "plumbers" if your trousers coved in silicone you obviously had no training whatsoever or you just didn't learn.

Wipe your hands on my uniforms and next thing you see with logo on it will be your invoice for new kit. Followed by a disciplinary for gross misconduct - defacement of PPE

 

[SimonG]

What size pipe you going to run?

 

[eddiebrown424]

coudn't agree more with some points ermintrude...... You dont have to be GSR to change / hang a radiator, run pipework aside from gas there is a fair bit that can be done legally. These things all form part of a long route to get where you are going. I think there is a vast gulf between being a plumber and heating engineer youre right and you have to work blo..y hard to get there. The principle is the same tho there is vast gulf between someone who is learning and works within the rules and who has qualifications than someone who hasn't or doesn't. I fall into the category of the former. You have to back up knowledge with qualifications and I will....

 

[Ermintrude]

What size pipe you going to run?

Oh is that on 4g or 3G I'm on t-mobile but my mates EE?

 

[eddiebrown424]

Hi SimonG havent really got that far as yet.... Tundish pipe work is 35mm so i would say 42mm but this would need to be worked out according to table in G3 I guess would also depend on whether plastic or copper if its copper it hs to be braized I think.

 

[chris watkins]

I would like to re route it.
I read that the discharge pipe can terminate here as the tundish will suffice in showing there is a problem.
is this right?
I realise that there may be an issue with smells but also read that a HEPVO trap can be used to stop this.
I know plastic UPVC pipe can be used to carry the disharge are these facts right.

1. You would like to re-route it ! What was I to think but that you will be doing the work !!
2. You did not know that UPVC pipe could NOT be used & that it had to be push fit waste pipe.

Guess copper would be a better option rather than barrier pipe as it burried and would need a couple of fittings. I am not going to do anything illegal nd appreciate the concern.

"Barrier pipe" as you call it becomes an option only after it was pointed out on here that it could be used.

i was thinking to myself that if I can give them a good report on what needs doing and the customer is ok with the price to change the cylinder (as the internal air gap seems on the way out) the company may put me through g3 training so as I an carry out the job. Everyones a winner customers prob sorted, company make money and I get the training..........

Already explained about the bubble it can't be "on its way out"
Would this be carrying out the work before the training & assessment…. ? I believe the temptation would be there not to bother as you know all about them.

Bit OTT really Chris.... don't you think. I have no qualms paying for it myself if only I constantly did pressurised cylinders..So do the Part G then ! I WOULD NOT undertake any work for which I am not deemed as competent and have worked on pressurised systems with others who have commissioned them. I came on here because I noticed a particularly dangerous situation when going to re charge a cylinder which I believe I am able to do as is the customer.
There is a whole deal of difference between a customer carrying out a proceeder & you carrying out work i.e. charging for a service.
With regards to the air gap it keeps failing so my report included options such as fitting an external one... However the cylinder is 20 years old and there are other works such as the discharge pipe that needs addressing (urgently so it may or may not) be worth the customer going to that expense and instead fitting a new cylinder for which I have asked the company to give a price...
I have recognised a potentially dangerous situation with the discharge looked at options. I have advised them of their options re a new cylinder, external expansion and explained to them the benefits / cons of both. In the interim and within the regs i have resolved their issue of a leaking T&P valve by repressurised the cylinder but this has a history of only lasting a few months.
I would suggest that you have not resolved their issue at all, why would the T&P be discharging on pressure when it's pressure setting is always higher that that of the expansion relief safety valve !!!!

Thought I had covered all angles and explained risk re discharge pipe terminating internally 3"s of a communal floor the spray back at 3.5 bar would scalled everyone in the area. Still as long as a G3 qualified engineer fitted it eh ?????? Please feel free to reply what you would have done differently as I find your post quite insulting.

What I would have done in your situation Eddie is collect all the relevant details of the situation & pass them all on to your Part G boss who could, with his training knowledge & experience prepared the report.

You have done very well to identify a potentially dangerous situation & both I & I am sure your boss congratulate you for that.

If you find my posts insulting when the gaps in your knowledge & training have been exposed & correct in good faith, then that is your problem !! For my part I feel insulted by a so called fellow tradesman who carries out work without the appropriate qualifications but keeps stating that he is not really doing anything wrong.

 

[eddiebrown424]

Chris all I came on this site for was to find out some information. I was aware that plastic pipe could be used however as you rightly state there was a bit that I didnt know i.e. soil stacks and punching through the drain etc. I didnt comeon here to be abused and accussed of working without the correct qualifications or competencies... i never hveand never will. I passed my gas 2 years ago and have only just registered because I did not feel ready. I did have intentions of carrying out some of the work i.e. digging the trench punching trough the drain and as I said earlieer I thought that I could join the pipe nd let my boss connect to the tundish if this is wrong so be it I wont do it there is no temptation to do work without the qualifications. it was for my own learning curve that I wanted to learn from this not and i reiterate not to complete the job without the appropriate training. Why should I get slated for wanting to learn and comming onto this forum to try to do so. I am planning to look into training tomorrow but dont install or service pressurised cylinders to warrant it. However this experience has highlighted the fact that as i do attend (but dont work on) communal discharge pipework and advise customers that there is a problem and that they need to get a G3 plumber out the benefits of doing it so as I can recognise risks may be worthwhile. With regards to my terminology re the air gap I can only apologise and should have said (the air gap) keeps breaking down, or something else i dont really know what but i did advise that an external expansion may resolve the issue. I was sent and didnt know what I was attending to I repressurised the cylinder which i thought i could do (as the customer can). I reported to my boss and came on here to learn something. With apologies if i offended.

 

[newcastle phill]

Just been on a course with someone who claimed to be G3.
I quizzed him about it and he became sheepish when I enquired about the levels of safety protection to protect the cylinder. .

He summarised by stating he got someone else in to do the wiring...
So I then asked about the d1 and d2 distances.
I got a blank look back.....


A dangerous b***d.
He was self employed by the way

 

[townfanjon]

what he probably meant Phill was he had 3G on his phone

 

[kris]

Its a crying shame guys were all here to help each other , so lets all be helpfull and safe , PEACE TO ALL

 

[Ermintrude]

Get 4g stay ahead of the class

 

[eddiebrown424]

Nice ref phil n goodnight all I'm off to fit an un-vented cylinder...... chow...

 

[AWheating]

the customer is not there to perform "work". If a tennant pressed the reset button on a boiler after it has locked out thats fine, if a person turns up being paid to "work" on said boiler he needs to be competent to do so. Its not the pushing of the button or the regenerating of an air bubble that matters. its the knowledge of that system or appliance and knowing how it works that a competent person has that identifies the reasons why the fault has happend and being able to leave it in a safe working condition.

protect yourself eddie, if your boss wants you to work on such things then he should train you.

 

[jim fennessey]

I've got a sore head after all that

 

[eddiebrown424]

very diplomatic AWheating and taken on board. I am going to sort training out this week.