Vaillant VRT 360 360f help

[tipper]

Hi, I've just had a new Vaillant 937 + VRT 360f installed and am struggling to set it up.

I can work through the manual and change/activate various features but to be frank I don't know what the features are and how I should configure the system to optimise the boiler/heating system. My installer left me with the book and said off you go so I don't know if he really understands it either!

Can anyone advise if there is an 'Idiots Guide' or Vaillant 'training manual' available for the programmer that would set me on the right path?

 

[Mike Jackson]

Before the installer signed off the boiler installation it is his responsibility to properly set up the system and fully demonstrate the controls to you. He has not fulfilled his obligations. At the bottom of the benchmark certificate there is a section that states

FOR ALL INSTALLATIONS CONFIRM THE FOLLOWING

THE HEATING AND HOT WATER SYSTEM COMPLIES WITH CURRENT BUILDING REGULATIONS

THE APPLIANCE AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT HAS BEEN INSTALLED AND COMMISSIONED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS

IF REQUIRED BY THE MANUFACTURER, HAVE YOU RECORDED A CO/CO2 RATIO READING? N/A YES CO/CO2 RATIO

THE OPERATION OF THE APPLIANCE AND SYSTEM CONTROLS HAVE BEEN DEMONSTRATED TO THE CUSTOMER

THE MANUFACTURER'S LITERATURE HAS BEEN LEFT WITH THE CUSTOMER

Which the installer is required to sign.

Mike

 

[tipper]

Thanks for your reply.

Whilst I am sure the installer did what he thought was necessary to meet his obligations, which he did sign off, I am now uncertain as to whether it is how it should be or indeed how I want it to be. It's one thing explaining a feature to a 'customer' and another the 'customer' remembering what was said and why! And before you go writing me off I am a retired heating engineer but I never came across all these clever electronics when I was working! I'll also add that some of the plumbers I came across would really struggle with such a sophisticated programmer.

Having poured over the instructions for both the combi boiler and the programmer I am left not knowing what it is supposed to do, the programmer that is. The instructions just don't give enough info about what it all means it just tells you you can change certain parameters.

For example, what is the 'analogue' setting for. It is set on 'two-point' I think but would I be better selecting analogue? If the instructions had explained or indeed the boiler manual explained then I might be able to check to see if this is best for me!

Vaillant have really let themselves down on this. I like what I see of the boiler but the programmer is a nightmare!

Any further help would be gratefully received. Are there any other instructions available?

 

[Mike Jackson]

I've just downloaded a copy of the manual and I have to say that I'm none the wiser. I wonder if it's possibly an immediate switch over from setback temp to comfort temp in 2 point mode and a gentle ramp up in analogue mode. Can't think of any other explanation.

Mike

 

[tipper]

I've just downloaded a copy of the manual and I have to say that I'm none the wiser. I wonder if it's possibly an immediate switch over from setback temp to comfort temp in 2 point mode and a gentle ramp up in analogue mode. Can't think of any other explanation.

Mike

Tricky little beggar isn't it?

My thought was it is to select either on/off control of the burner/boiler l or modulation of the burner output to match the required temperature ramp up? Who knows!

I assume Vaillant run specialist training courses on how to set it up because you need a PhD in computer science to understand it!

Cheers.

 

[stripypanther]

Before the installer signed off the boiler installation it is his responsibility to properly set up the system and fully demonstrate the controls to you. He has not fulfilled his obligations. At the bottom of the benchmark certificate there is a section that states

FOR ALL INSTALLATIONS CONFIRM THE FOLLOWING

THE HEATING AND HOT WATER SYSTEM COMPLIES WITH CURRENT BUILDING REGULATIONS

THE APPLIANCE AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT HAS BEEN INSTALLED AND COMMISSIONED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS

IF REQUIRED BY THE MANUFACTURER, HAVE YOU RECORDED A CO/CO2 RATIO READING? N/A YES CO/CO2 RATIO

THE OPERATION OF THE APPLIANCE AND SYSTEM CONTROLS HAVE BEEN DEMONSTRATED TO THE CUSTOMER

THE MANUFACTURER'S LITERATURE HAS BEEN LEFT WITH THE CUSTOMER

Which the installer is required to sign.

Mike

Hi,

In July 2008 I had a local plumber install a Vaillant ecoTEC plus 937 in our garage, at the same they also fitted the Vaillant VRT360f. Once completed it wall all tested and it was found that the thermostat would not remotely connect to the boiler, otherwise the boiler worked fine giving hot water to both the taps and the radiators. As the plumber had done an excellent job we very stupidly paid him the full quoted amount and he issued a certificate.

You mentioned that the certificate is bench marked and has a list of checks to be signed off, but our certificate was printed on a piece of plain white A4 paper showing the companies name, address, Corgi number and a statement say “This is a certificate confirming that **Company Name** installed a New Boiler in accordance with the Manufacturer’s instructions and the Industry Regulations”, is this acceptable as a certificate.

The plumber returned a couple of weeks later to replace the VRT360f but again this did not work. It is now 9 months later and we have still not had the part fixed, we keep being given the excuse that they cannot get the part and that we are next. Because of the boilers position and the recent cold weather the heating has being working off the unit’s internal thermostat and has meant that it has been on constantly.

I would be most grateful if anyone would have any suggestions as to how I should proceed as we cannot afford to employ another plumber to finish the job. Are there any bodies within the plumbing trade that I could talk to?

Thanks

Dave

 

[stevetheplumber]

explaing controls to a customer is fine untill you come across the more intricate controls it could take a week to explain some systems even m,ore so as half of them i dont realy understand quite often my customers in north london have only basic english skills
ive stopped fitting programmable stats using the old timer and stat option
everyone understands them

as i understand it the idea of programmable thermostats is the house never cools completely generally you set diferent temps for different periods of the day and in some cases different for each diferent day
only the user can decide this and at the end of the day its to much for most people over thirty to sit and programme these devices
in some ways its technology out stripping the average person
even with a timer and stat a lot of people use the stat as a on of switch

 

[tipper]

I think the issue is that it is not working at all!

The programmer needs to be able to communicate with the receiver which will be mounted adjacent to the boiler and connected to the boiler with a cable. If there are any heavy walls, steel beams, lots of pipework or even the boiler casing itself shielding the receiver then it will never work properly.

A few things to try...

1 Unclip the programmer from the wall ( push in two tabs on the underside of the programmer to release it) and take it to the boiler, does it work if closer?

2 Switch the boiler off and also switch off the power to the boiler, then re-power as this may reset the communication.

3 Remove the cover from the front of the receiver box. It has a couple of LEDs on the circuit board which tell you whether it is communicating properly. Page 37 of the little manual tells you what they mean.

 

[Kayball]

I've just downloaded a copy of the manual and I have to say that I'm none the wiser. I wonder if it's possibly an immediate switch over from setback temp to comfort temp in 2 point mode and a gentle ramp up in analogue mode. Can't think of any other explanation.

Mike

As I understand it. the installer setting for the VRT360/360f, when used in a full e-bus system, should be set in the Z/A screen, to Analogue (the controller display should be set to 1)

Note: The VRT 360 can be programmed to modulate the boiler flow temperature depending on the room temperature to
further maximise fuel savings."

The two point ( 0/1 , digital) control mentioned in the manual is an ‘on/off’ feature. The thermostat then functions like a switch or a conventional electro-mechanical thermostat and can only turn the boiler burner or pump either on or off.
If installed with a Vaillant ecoTech condensing boiler, then the thermostat should be configured to operate as an analogue (0-100%) control device. Instead of an ON or OFF signal. When set like this, it sends a variable signal to the boiler depending on the room temperature, causing the boiler flow temperature to be modulated or varied in response. This way, the flow temperature is kept to a minimum and the boiler is therefore kept in condensing mode most of the time.
Hope this helps someone.
I think I now have a reasonable understanding of the VRT360 controllers, when used with a VR65 and ecoTEC boiler, but it has been hard work. Despite what some installers say, the customer has little need for full instruction when the installation is set up correctly. To change the set room temperature, just Turn the knob clockwise, one click, to display the 'Sun' symbol. The current set temperature is then displayed. Within 5 seconds, Turn the knob either way to increse or decrease the displayed temperature. An overide funtion (named Veto) can also be used by pressing the F button once. Turning the dial lets a new temporary temperature to be set. The display returns to normal after 10 seconds. To cancell this new setting, press F once.

Water temperature can also be altered in a similar manner, providing a suitable Vaillant open vent boiler and NTC (VR10) is used to measure hot water cylinder temperature. (Use either a dry pocket in an Essex flange fitted to the cylinder or, as I prefer, the VR10 can be held in a slot cut in the tank insulation, the tank surface cleaned, to give intimate contact as for a mechanical stat, and then held in place with an additional small piece of aluminium. The whole cut is then sealed with silicon sealer. to support the assembly and lead. Any discepancy with required water temperature can be compensated for by altering the set DHW temperature until the actual water temperature is satisfactory.

From the normal (default) display. Press the knob 9 times in succession to display DHW (Domestic Hot Water). and set temperature. The factory setting is 60 degC but this can be changed to operate between 35degC and 70 deg C by rotating the knob as required. The display returns to normal after 5 seconds. Simple when you know how!
Best Regards
Kayball.

 

[tipper]

I now understand the 360f too after some trial and error and several months of fiddling with it!

The real downer is that I can't remember what each button/function does without referring to the instruction book so it still gets 'nil points' from me for usability!!

Designed by an IT nerd for an IT nerd to use IMHO. A real anorak of a programmer.....