Very poor output from taps and shower

[Nick77]

Hi,

I have an ongoing problem with the water flow from my mixer taps and shower. Only the flow rate from the mains-supplied kitchen cold tap is acceptable. Over the last 2 - 3 months the output from the other mixer taps has gradually decreased and it seemed likely that my booster pump had developed a fault. When the taps are turned on there is a reasonable - not great - output fro about a minute and then it reduces rapidly. Turning on 2 taps leaves barely an output from either. Flushing the loo also cuts out the flow from a running tap.

A new variable speed pump was installed last week but there this hasn't improved things. Another plumber spent all afternoon today trying to remedy the problem without success, which was as frustrating for him as it is for me. He thinks there is a massive air-block but can't see how to resolve it. He is going to ask around to see if any of his fellow plumbers have had similar experiences.

I now think it possible that there was nothing wrong with the old pump but can't be sure.

If anyone can advise on this it would be great to hear from you.

Many thanks and regards,

Nick

 

[village idiot]

I would still suggest that you go through a process of elimination: honestly, my guess is that it could be one of TWO things (OK, may be 3?).
1) Either pump related, of
2) Air lock.
I'd bypass the pump and see if I get a steady flow of water at the hot taps, even if the boiler isn't firing. After all, you used the system in the past with no pump. That test will determine if you have an airlock. If water flows freely continuously, then tue pump must be a culprit. 3rd option would be pipework but that is unlikely.

 

[Nick77]

I would still suggest that you go through a process of elimination: honestly, my guess is that it could be one of TWO things (OK, may be 3?).
1) Either pump related, of
2) Air lock.
I'd bypass the pump and see if I get a steady flow of water at the hot taps, even if the boiler isn't firing. After all, you used the system in the past with no pump. That test will determine if you have an airlock. If water flows freely continuously, then tue pump must be a culprit. 3rd option would be pipework but that is unlikely.

Thank you VI.

I agree your method would lead to a diagnosis regarding the pump, air-lock, pipes or possibly boiler (divertor valve/heat exchanger, anything/everything else has been mentioned). It's obviously a process of elimination. I can't do this myself and the 2 plumbers who have been here are not coming back. The guy who fitted the pump had another appointment and had to leave and I haven't been able to contact him for a week. The second, after a series of checks, said he was able to dismiss the pump - his assessment was: air-lock - but said he couldn't help.

This is a two-bedroom flat. I can't believe it's such a complex problem. However, timing is the other thing. Plumbers are busy in December..

I appreciate the time that you and other contributors have taken to help with this.

 

[village idiot]

You are welcome Nick. I'm hoping you get this resolved before the festivities kick in. In reality, the plumber who fitted the pump should attend and try his best to resolve the issue. But seeing he left for another appointment and hasn't made contact in a week, I'm suspecting he will avoid coming back there. December is a busy month but that's no reason to not address "problems" arising from jobs you did?

 

[Nick77]

To VI, Rocketman and all on this forum,

Best wishes for a successful 2016.

 

[kay-jay]

You say the plumber isolated the pressure vessel to rule that out?

Describe the vessel. It may be that the vessel is an accumulator that has lost its charge and therefore not delivering the necessary flow

 

[Nick77]

You say the plumber isolated the pressure vessel to rule that out?

Describe the vessel. It may be that the vessel is an accumulator that has lost its charge and therefore not delivering the necessary flow

Hi Kay-Jay and thank you for your comments.

I was hoping that the pressure vessel (5 gallons) was the root cause of this as it would have been an easy fix. It is under pressure and I tested the schraeder valve; there was a slight release of air as expected but no water came out so the diaphragm is probably intact. The second plumber temporarily disconnected it from the circuit - there was no discernible difference to the flow. In the last couple of days the flow rates have deteriorated and there is no hot output from the bathroom mixer tap. It's all a bit confusing. I'm now hoping it turns out to be an air-lock as it would be the next most straightforward problem to deal with though I admit that may be due to my overall naivete in these matters.

Thanks again.

 

[kay-jay]

Hi Kay-Jay and thank you for your comments.

I was hoping that the pressure vessel (5 gallons) was the root cause of this as it would have been an easy fix. It is under pressure and I tested the schraeder valve; there was a slight release of air as expected but no water came out so the diaphragm is probably intact. The second plumber temporarily disconnected it from the circuit - there was no discernible difference to the flow. In the last couple of days the flow rates have deteriorated and there is no hot output from the bathroom mixer tap. It's all a bit confusing. I'm now hoping it turns out to be an air-lock as it would be the next most straightforward problem to deal with though I admit that may be due to my overall naivete in these matters.

Thanks again.

Just because there is some air in it doesn't mean it hasn't lost some of its charge. You need to put a pressure gauge on there and check the reading with the manufacturers info on pre-charge strength and top up if necessary.

Given that it's purpose is to provide power for the flow, linking it out as the plumber did isn't gonna prove anything.....

 

[Nick77]

Just because there is some air in it doesn't mean it hasn't lost some of its charge. You need to put a pressure gauge on there and check the reading with the manufacturers info on pre-charge strength and top up if necessary.

Given that it's purpose is to provide power for the flow, linking it out as the plumber did isn't gonna prove anything.....

Point taken Kay-Jay. I was thinking of taking it out altogether as I now have a variable speed pump, which is relatively quiet compared to the old one. Still, if it's left in situ its pressure should be checked. In fact, it was installed at the same time as the old pump and its purpose was not to enhance the pump's pressure but to provide a 25 litre reservoir so that the pump wouldn't immediately come on when I turned on the tap just wash my hands, for example. This is is a modest two-bedroom flat and, with two of us here, the demand on the pump is not exactly excessive. However, I admit my knowledge is based on no more than intuitive guesswork as most of my comments reveal all-too-clearly.

 

[spanner]

Ar you able to send three pictures of the 1) the pump 2) the water tank 3) the hot water cylinder
Is there a loft there??
Upstairs?

 

[Nick77]

Ar you able to send three pictures of the 1) the pump 2) the water tank 3) the hot water cylinder
Is there a loft there??
Upstairs?

My phone's camera is kaput and I haven't replaced a camera that broke a while ago.

The pump is a DABs e.sybox MINI variable speed pump:

e.sybox mini

Thanks for your message.

There's no loft. The communal water tank is on the flat roof; I live on the top (4th) floor of a block of 53 flats served by 5 or 6 tanks.

I have a combi boiler without an external water cylinder.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

the only way i can think of is flush the outgoing pipe from the pump with mains water to prove the line has no air in it

 

[Nick77]

the only way i can think of is flush the outgoing pipe from the pump with mains water to prove the line has no air in it

Hi Shaun,

I think I'll arrange that. I'll let you know how things turn out if this thread is still active.

Have a great weekend everyone.

 

[spanner]

Or there's a check valve, or pr valve, or strainer somewhere.
If you've a pump positioned and fitted in the right place 3bar on one floor should be very powerful all round ??
Check or replace pump strainer.

 

[Nick77]

Or there's a check valve, or pr valve, or strainer somewhere.
If you've a pump positioned and fitted in the right place 3bar on one floor should be very powerful all round ??
Check or replace pump strainer.

The pump is brand new - installed a week ago. The old one was probably fine too but the manufacturer's tech team said it was v likely that it needed a new pressure switch - unfortunately, they stopped supplying parts for this model in January this year, which was a bit disappointing as I bought it 6 years ago.

I agree, a 3 Bar pump seems excessive but the old one did the job. Also, it was unusual for more than one tap to be on at the same time so the demand was low.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

Hi Shaun,

I think I'll arrange that. I'll let you know how things turn out if this thread is still active.

Have a great weekend everyone.

this thread isn't going anywhere anytime soon :santa1:

 

[ShaunCorbs]

this thread isn't going anywhere anytime soon :santa1:

unless the world blows up but then who cares

 

[spanner]

Personally I would not have any kind of recommendation to ever fitting a pump that you've kept three years tbh.
And I'm in Wembley at the moment. Just finished
In H9
Is this local to you??