Vokera 29HE loosing pressure

[morganlilli]

Definately sounds like a leak on the system pipework.

If there are no obvious signs (wet flooring, stains on ceiling) then although an infrared camera has been used my thoughts still tend towards concealed pipes.

Any thoughts on the next option if it is a leak concealed under ground? Are there any further checks we can perform to pinpoint the leak before literally having to dig all the floors up. Cheers

 

[JAP&H]

Thats your hot water pipe that's dripping. Not ideal to have any leaks but that won't drop your system pressure.

 

[stokecity]

sounds like your main heat exchanger is leaking and the water going down your condensate. put pressure in your system and check to see if water is coming out of your condensate pipe while there is no call for heat

 

[JAP&H]

Any thoughts on the next option if it is a leak concealed under ground? Are there any further checks we can perform to pinpoint the leak before literally having to dig all the floors up. Cheers

Not always successful but I have pinpointed leaks on buried pipework via noise.

Similar to listening for flow noise when balancing system.

Place handle of largish screwdriver agains your bestest ear with tip on rad pipe near floor. Sometimes have to turn rad off. Check everywhere, you're listening for running water.

 

[morganlilli]

Not always successful but I have pinpointed leaks on buried pipework via noise.

Similar to listening for flow noise when balancing system.

Place handle of largish screwdriver agains your bestest ear with tip on rad pipe near floor. Sometimes have to turn rad off. Check everywhere, you're listening for running water.

Thanks JAP&A. DynoRod chap used a listening device on all the radiators as well as the thermal imaging....sorry, should have included this in the original post.

 

[stokecity]

pressurise the system before you go bed to 1.5 bar then turn heating flow and return off at the boiler, check in the morning to confirm if the leak is in the boiler or on the heating system, then atleast youve got an idea

 

[morganlilli]

pressurise the system before you go bed to 1.5 bar then turn heating flow and return off at the boiler, check in the morning to confirm if the leak is in the boiler or on the heating system, then atleast youve got an idea

Thanks Stokecity. Sorry to be clueless, but how do I do this (i.e. turn heating flow and return off at boiler) and is it completely safe (young daughter sleeps in same room as boiler).

 

[stokecity]

the two 22mm pipes on the left of the boiler are the flow and return, they are connected to the boiler at the brass taps underneath the boiler, close the taps using an adjustable,flat head screwdriver (which ever is required) turn heating off at the time switch, and yes it is safe. if the pressure gauge is still at 1.5 bar in the morning and it drops when you open heating flow return then leak is on your pipework, or if its dropped with heating isolated leaks in your boiler

 

[morganlilli]

the two 22mm pipes on the left of the boiler are the flow and return, they are connected to the boiler at the brass taps underneath the boiler, close the taps using an adjustable,flat head screwdriver (which ever is required) turn heating off at the time switch, and yes it is safe. if the pressure gauge is still at 1.5 bar in the morning and it drops when you open heating flow return then leak is on your pipework, or if its dropped with heating isolated leaks in your boiler

Great - thanks. Will try this tomorrow evening and report back!

 

[morganlilli]

the two 22mm pipes on the left of the boiler are the flow and return, they are connected to the boiler at the brass taps underneath the boiler, close the taps using an adjustable,flat head screwdriver (which ever is required) turn heating off at the time switch, and yes it is safe. if the pressure gauge is still at 1.5 bar in the morning and it drops when you open heating flow return then leak is on your pipework, or if its dropped with heating isolated leaks in your boiler

Im being stupid but I cant see how to close the valves? It look like an Allen key fitting..is this right? You may be able to see from the previous pic. Thanks

 

[morganlilli]

Still after help from the forum please.
I have attached a picture of the valves I believe to be the flow and return.

The questions I have are:
1) Are these the flow and return valves
2) How do you close them/turn them off

I really want to follow the earlier advice but am not sure how to close them.

Thanks

 

[stokecity]

turn the slots with a flat head to they are horizontal

 

[JAP&H]

Yes they are the flow and return valves.

To close, use adjustable spanner on square section and turn 90 degrees clockwise. Be gentle, they will only close one way and open the other.

Ensure boiler is switched off and pressurised before closing valves.

 

[morganlilli]

Thanks for the advice so far. I pressurised to 1.5 bar last night, closed the flow and return, switched the boiler to off/reset and left it. This morning the pressure had dropped by 1 bar (to 0.5 bar). Am I right in thinking this may mean the problem is in the boiler, not in the pipes?
I have BG out again in Weds...any thoughts on what the issue may be?
Thanks again

 

[JAP&H]

Looks like a leak within the boiler if the iso valves weren't letting by.

Did the pressure increase when you opened the valves to let the pressure in the system equalise with boiler?

 

[morganlilli]

Hi Jap&h - the pressure didn't move when I opened the valves and was still at 0.5 bar when I got home tonight.

 

[morganlilli]

Hi Jap&h, the pressure didn't move when I opened the valves and switched the boiler on for hot water. Was still at 0.5 bar when I got home tonight (no heating on today).

 

[JAP&H]

Either:

Iso valves letting by (not sealing boiler from system) so leak on system.

Or.

Iso valves ok and leak on boiler and system (very unlikely).

 

[morganlilli]

Either:

Iso valves letting by (not sealing boiler from system) so leak on system.

Or.

Iso valves ok and leak on boiler and system (very unlikely).

Jap&h - could you explain please. Would you have expected the pressure to go up when the valves were opened again?

 

[JAP&H]

If you charged the system to 1.5 bar and then isolated the boiler.

If the leak was on the boiler and it was isolated from the system then when the iso valves were opened the system pressure (1.5 bar) should equalise with the boiler which was at 0.5 bar going to somewhere around .75 to 1 bar.

However the system pressure dropped to 0.5 bar also so most likely iso valves not sealing fully. Leak on system pipe work somewhere.

Back to buried pipe work I think.

 

[morganlilli]

If you charged the system to 1.5 bar and then isolated the boiler.

If the leak was on the boiler and it was isolated from the system then when the iso valves were opened the system pressure (1.5 bar) should equalise with the boiler which was at 0.5 bar going to somewhere around .75 to 1 bar.

However the system pressure dropped to 0.5 bar also so most likely iso valves not sealing fully. Leak on system pipe work somewhere.

Back to buried pipe work I think.

Thanks Jap&h - understood. May repeat tomorrow and watch again, but burried pipes is top of the list. Will see what else, if anything, BG can do to locate. Will post updates in case it's useful for others...

 

[plumbqate]

what about heat exchanger leaking into condensate ? currently got this with a synergy boiler.

 

[JAP&H]

Stokecity mentioned this in an earlier post, don't know if morganlilli has checked it out.

 

[morganlilli]

what about heat exchanger leaking into condensate ? currently got this with a synergy boiler.

Not yet checked out, but will ask BG to look at today before moving to the underfloor pipes. Will keep you posted. Thanks

 

[CJ87]

Definitely sounds like heat ex running into condensate, especially when youre saying condense pipe for quite it's length is warm to touch. Like stokecity says if condensate still dripping when no demand on, then theirs yours problem...had this on many Baxi 105 he's