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Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
RCD's have nothing to do with cross bonding.
RCD's have nothing to do with cross bonding.
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- Thread starter casaco
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Discuss What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boilers? in the Boilers area at Plumbers Forums
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Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
No. The work you do has to conform to the current regulation. You can't do work and make it conform to an earlier regulation.
No. The work you do has to conform to the current regulation. You can't do work and make it conform to an earlier regulation.
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Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
Stray electric?
Stray electric?
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Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
It's not for the event of a fault. Cross bonding was only ever installed to ensure there are no potential differences between metalwork, especially extraneous metalwork. The CPC in the wiring is for carrying fault current.
It's not for the event of a fault. Cross bonding was only ever installed to ensure there are no potential differences between metalwork, especially extraneous metalwork. The CPC in the wiring is for carrying fault current.
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Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
If the electrical installation is protected by a 17th Edition consumer unit then no supplementary bonding is needed anywhere in the house. If it's 16th Edition or older then you would still use supplementary bonding. In practise I would take a peak at the consumer unit anyway and try and sell them a 17th Edition one if they don't have one
If the electrical installation is protected by a 17th Edition consumer unit then no supplementary bonding is needed anywhere in the house. If it's 16th Edition or older then you would still use supplementary bonding. In practise I would take a peak at the consumer unit anyway and try and sell them a 17th Edition one if they don't have one
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Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
That's the sort of thing I can't stand. 16th edition made more technical sense anyway.
In practise I would take a peak at the consumer unit anyway and try and sell them a 17th Edition one if they don't have one
That's the sort of thing I can't stand. 16th edition made more technical sense anyway.
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Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
true, my mistake, it sounds right in my head but what i ment was bonding the stopcock(Brass) would be ok, water does conduct electricity pretty well after all we are 80% water.
we were discussing this today and 17th edition only require you earth the water main and gas meter because of the 30ma breaker in the consumer unit
I also may add that I am NOT a sparky so dont take my word for it
true, my mistake, it sounds right in my head but what i ment was bonding the stopcock(Brass) would be ok, water does conduct electricity pretty well after all we are 80% water.
we were discussing this today and 17th edition only require you earth the water main and gas meter because of the 30ma breaker in the consumer unit
I also may add that I am NOT a sparky so dont take my word for it
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Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
This is the part people are not clear on. Bonding has nothing to do with the lack of an RCD. Bonding is to ensure all extraneous conductive metalwork is at the same potential, having an RCD simply doesn't replace the bondings job of doing that which has made a few of us electricians wonder if the IET are now saying metalwork at different potentials isn't such a risk anymore.
This is the part people are not clear on. Bonding has nothing to do with the lack of an RCD. Bonding is to ensure all extraneous conductive metalwork is at the same potential, having an RCD simply doesn't replace the bondings job of doing that which has made a few of us electricians wonder if the IET are now saying metalwork at different potentials isn't such a risk anymore.
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Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
according to Regs its fine
according to Regs its fine
J
jase158
Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
I,m Confused, I thought the whole point of bonding was to prevent electrical shock when touching metal pipes, including the possibility of lightning?
So if there was a thunder storm with 17th edition wiring installed then you had better not touch any pipes, lol.
I understand the wiring issue as the new rcds, will switch off before you get an electrical shock, but I thought lightning was the most important issue?
I,m Confused, I thought the whole point of bonding was to prevent electrical shock when touching metal pipes, including the possibility of lightning?
So if there was a thunder storm with 17th edition wiring installed then you had better not touch any pipes, lol.
I understand the wiring issue as the new rcds, will switch off before you get an electrical shock, but I thought lightning was the most important issue?
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Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
I disagree but each to there own. I'm not doing this for fun, I'm in business to make money. If a customer has a 16th Edition unit I will explain it is outdated and offer to fit a newer one, if they don't want it that's fine too.
I disagree but each to there own. I'm not doing this for fun, I'm in business to make money. If a customer has a 16th Edition unit I will explain it is outdated and offer to fit a newer one, if they don't want it that's fine too.
B
Bernie2
Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
RCD's are good but they do fail. That is why you need bonding as a back up. Incidentally Regs can be wrong from a Safety Point of view.
RCD's are good but they do fail. That is why you need bonding as a back up. Incidentally Regs can be wrong from a Safety Point of view.
Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
Under the 17th edition of the Regs it is permitted to have no supplementary bonding in a room containing a bath or shower providing that the main equipotential bonding is in place, and that all the circuits feeding the room have additional protection from a RCD with 30mA (or lower) trip threshold.
in non special locations its is not a requirement to have supplementary bonding providing main equipotential bonding is in place. Which includes kitchens.
so yes you do not have to bond pipework at the boiler in most situations. Your sparky should decide if its needed.
Under the 17th edition of the Regs it is permitted to have no supplementary bonding in a room containing a bath or shower providing that the main equipotential bonding is in place, and that all the circuits feeding the room have additional protection from a RCD with 30mA (or lower) trip threshold.
in non special locations its is not a requirement to have supplementary bonding providing main equipotential bonding is in place. Which includes kitchens.
so yes you do not have to bond pipework at the boiler in most situations. Your sparky should decide if its needed.
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L
lambchop
Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
Thats the impression I got, I know the main bonding for gas/water has to be within 600mm of meter/tap. I was also told if you have any plastic in the house that you have to bridge it with a suitable size earth cable and clamp it either side of plastic onto the copper so as not to ruin the integrity of the earth bonding.
Thats the impression I got, I know the main bonding for gas/water has to be within 600mm of meter/tap. I was also told if you have any plastic in the house that you have to bridge it with a suitable size earth cable and clamp it either side of plastic onto the copper so as not to ruin the integrity of the earth bonding.
T
tamz
Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
The only thing that is required of a gas engineer regards bonding is to inform the customer (householder or whoever) that it is required if not visible (in writing, usually by a preprinted card). There ends your responsibility. The customer is not obliged to do anything about it but we have passed the buck. We (generally) are not qualified to do anymore and there is no requirement to do so.
Supplementary bonding is outwith our scope so why dwell on it. That is why there are electricians. It is thier job and their responsibility so leave it to them.
Btw just because you see a bond at the meter don't mean it is done correctly. I've yet to meet a gasman who tested one in their everyday work. I've come across gas pipes bonded to nothing and even a 10ft piece of 10mm soldered to the pipe under the floor and clamped in the box.
The only thing that is required of a gas engineer regards bonding is to inform the customer (householder or whoever) that it is required if not visible (in writing, usually by a preprinted card). There ends your responsibility. The customer is not obliged to do anything about it but we have passed the buck. We (generally) are not qualified to do anymore and there is no requirement to do so.
Supplementary bonding is outwith our scope so why dwell on it. That is why there are electricians. It is thier job and their responsibility so leave it to them.
Btw just because you see a bond at the meter don't mean it is done correctly. I've yet to meet a gasman who tested one in their everyday work. I've come across gas pipes bonded to nothing and even a 10ft piece of 10mm soldered to the pipe under the floor and clamped in the box.
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- 165
Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
Indeed, yes. What I'm saying though is it's as if the IET back peddled on the requirement, since RCDs have nothing to do with it.
I've been informed by a sparky that if a 17th us fitted then cross bonding isn't required. Is this correct or not?
Indeed, yes. What I'm saying though is it's as if the IET back peddled on the requirement, since RCDs have nothing to do with it.
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Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
Well I certainly hope you don't peddle it to them as if it's a need for it to be changed.
Well I certainly hope you don't peddle it to them as if it's a need for it to be changed.
B
Bernie2
Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
Apparently you can do away with cross bonding in a bath or wet room. But only if the pipework is continuous with the rest of the pipework in the house which must be bonded to the Main Earthing Terminal. In other words the Earth loop path must be of the same value as well.
Thinking about it, it seems to be a bit of relaxation compensated for by having more RCD's as protection. Still a bit "iffy" to me, but that is what 17th seem to say. I would check it out to be sure.
Apparently you can do away with cross bonding in a bath or wet room. But only if the pipework is continuous with the rest of the pipework in the house which must be bonded to the Main Earthing Terminal. In other words the Earth loop path must be of the same value as well.
Thinking about it, it seems to be a bit of relaxation compensated for by having more RCD's as protection. Still a bit "iffy" to me, but that is what 17th seem to say. I would check it out to be sure.
S
sedgy34
Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
no cross bonding required to the 17th edition regs only equipotential bonding to water and gas incoming services.
no cross bonding required to the 17th edition regs only equipotential bonding to water and gas incoming services.
Re: What are the actual legal requirements for supplementary bonding under gas boiler
As stated back a few pages, the idea of bonding is to provide an equipotential zone (the house and all conductive parts within) whereby all the conductive surfaces have a potential greater than the path to earth electricity would have to take via your body if you were to get a shock. Any extraneous conductive part (pipes, steelwork etc)
Taken from on-site guide 17th
There is no requirement to main bond an incoming service where the service pipe is plastic (for example yellow plastic for was, blue plastic for water)
Where there is a plastic incoming service and metal installation within the premises, main bonding is recommended unless it has been confirmed that any metallic pipework within the building is not introducing earth potential (extraneous conductive part)
Unless satisfactory disconnection time cannot be achieved, supplementary bonding cannot be achieved there is no requirement for supplementary bonding (boiler pipework for example) if the installation meets 17th edition.
Achieving 17th edition standard is basically to fit (if not already fitted) an RCD which is where the confusion may lay.
Does that help?
As stated back a few pages, the idea of bonding is to provide an equipotential zone (the house and all conductive parts within) whereby all the conductive surfaces have a potential greater than the path to earth electricity would have to take via your body if you were to get a shock. Any extraneous conductive part (pipes, steelwork etc)
Taken from on-site guide 17th
There is no requirement to main bond an incoming service where the service pipe is plastic (for example yellow plastic for was, blue plastic for water)
Where there is a plastic incoming service and metal installation within the premises, main bonding is recommended unless it has been confirmed that any metallic pipework within the building is not introducing earth potential (extraneous conductive part)
Unless satisfactory disconnection time cannot be achieved, supplementary bonding cannot be achieved there is no requirement for supplementary bonding (boiler pipework for example) if the installation meets 17th edition.
Achieving 17th edition standard is basically to fit (if not already fitted) an RCD which is where the confusion may lay.
Does that help?
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