Where exactly does it say the public cannot take the case off a boiler?

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

I think it is true that Jo Public is breaking the law when he tries to fix his gas appliance - even though he thinks he isn't touching the gas!
And i think I've read about it in the GSR mag or Tb....

But can anyone state exactly where it would say clearly that this is illegal?

....
Obviously threads like that are frequently started by DIYers.
I do think the problem is often ignorance.
I am sure many (sure as people we know) would not try to fix their own boilers if they new is was not allowed!

.... Clearly Derek should post a link to the petition at this point!... I will sign it later today - promise.
And having parts readily on sale to the public gives the wrong message.

 

[Dotty]

Personally I draw the line at the case being removed. Many cases form the seal so that in itself is illegal. And this is where DIY ignorance kicks in.

The average fish wouldn't understand why we've told him not to open up his boiler but given the go ahead for someone else because they've an inner seal!

So in my view one hard and fast rule is the best way to go!

 

[lame plumber]

watchdog on the beeb, so it must be right!

 

[AWheating]

removing a case that has a seal that forms part of the combustion chamber comes under gas "work". This mean that even a sparks should not remove such a case to wire a appliance. This is the reason why worcester have designed there new boiler to have access to the electric's without the need to remove its case.

TB 043 mentions the fact a sparks cant touch anything thats part of the combustion process. which would include the removal of such a case as above.

it also mentions solenoid valves, saying they can touch them if not behind a case seal? i would have thought you would want to test the gas valves tightness after changing one??

 

[R1CKY]

I think it is true that Jo Public is breaking the law when he tries to fix his gas appliance - even though he thinks he isn't touching the gas!
And i think I've read about it in the GSR mag or Tb....

But can anyone state exactly where it would say clearly that this is illegal?

....
Obviously threads like that are frequently started by DIYers.
I do think the problem is often ignorance.
I am sure many (sure as people we know) would not try to fix their own boilers if they new is was not allowed!

.... Clearly Derek should post a link to the petition at this point!... I will sign it later today - promise.
And having parts readily on sale to the public gives the wrong message.

I'm sure they still wouldn't care. The majority of peoples attitude towards gas safety is "I can't smell gas, it must be safe!"

I'm sure the ruling (wherever it is stated) only applies to cases that form the room seal like Worcester Greenstars and not those that have a decorative outer case, with a separate combustion case underneath, like older non condensing boilers.

Not much damage to be done by removing a decorative case IMO.

 

[Dotty]

Not much damage to be done by removing a decorative case IMO.

To us, no you're right Ricky, But to a fish with absolutely no comprehension of what he's doing other than what he's read on an internet forum it's a whole new ball game and I'm not prepared for any of us being held culpable because some nugget has killed his children and his goldfish by trying to save some money.

It's far better, in my view, to tell them to leave well alone.

Not only that, for every DIY repair we advise on a boiler, there's a tradesman going out of business!

 

[Nostrum]

I agree 100% with not giving advice on boiler repairs, both to stop the have a go heroes and to try and keep a bit of value in the trade and not take work from other engineers by giving advice out for free. That said though, it is not illegal for someone to take the combustion chamber off their own boiler unless they are incompetent. Competency, as it stands in the regs is hard to prove, and qualification isn't the only way to prove it. This is why I said in another post, that incompetency is easier to prove, once the mistake has been made which is pretty much where the law stands at present.

this is why the building regulations require notification to building control. In effect, you could fit your own gas boiler, and get it signed off by building control. Much the same as electric, oil whatever. More of a discouragement than a 'law' and as we know, it's often flouted by even the professionals.

Law is hard to change, and something as 'trivial' as gas or electric rarely gets a look over. That's why we are still working the gsiur 1998, over 15 years old, and the industry has changed hugely in that time.

also agree with croppie in the above post, when I was an apprentice, I was trying to take burner pressure on a boiler, and somehow I got the test point and the heat exchanger drain point mixed up! I got covered in water and felt like a tit, but imagine if a DIYer did the opposite, and the consequences of not tightening back up could be.

 

[Reg Man]

I think it is true that Jo Public is breaking the law when he tries to fix his gas appliance - even though he thinks he isn't touching the gas!
And i think I've read about it in the GSR mag or Tb....

But can anyone state exactly where it would say clearly that this is illegal?

....
Obviously threads like that are frequently started by DIYers.
I do think the problem is often ignorance.
I am sure many (sure as people we know) would not try to fix their own boilers if they new is was not allowed!

.... Clearly Derek should post a link to the petition at this point!... I will sign it later today - promise.
And having parts readily on sale to the public gives the wrong message.

Yes Tara, Your probably right. Its up to the court of law to decide if a DIY has contravened the GSIUR over competence when doing gas work. We all have to do ACS and be GSR registered to protect the public, but after all we have a responsibility to our customers to deliver a safe job because its our profession. The DIY people have a responsibility to deliver a safe job to their partners and children. It would be a huge step forward to restrict sale's of gas appliances and parts to the proven safe, but this is currently against trading regulations.

 

[Sid Viscous]

It would be a huge step forward to restrict sale's of gas appliances and parts to the proven safe, but this is currently against trading regulations.

Then surely the Trading regs need looking at. After all, an unlicensed person can't go into a shop & buy themselves a shotgun. Both deadly in the wrong hands!

 

[lame plumber]

I think its time all manufacturers included a self destruct device if diy heros try removing the cover, think of all the call outs, thinking about it Ferrolli do already, you just touch the cover and something breaks

 

[tamz]

Then surely the Trading regs need looking at. After all, an unlicensed person can't go into a shop & buy themselves a shotgun. Both deadly in the wrong hands!

This has been an ongoing thing for over 25 years now. You have to be registered to fit the parts but anyone can buy them.
Illegal work could be virtually stopped overnight if they would pass a law but the powers that be are more interested in business and money than peoples lives but we are the easy target through toothless regulation.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

I'm sure they still wouldn't care. The majority of peoples attitude towards gas safety is "I can't smell gas, it must be safe!"

I disagree. I think most DIY people who have a go really think it is OK. Because there not much to tell them it is not OK. The advice on how to do it is freely available and the parts are readily available.

I think if THEY can't stop parts being sold to the public then at least they could be sold with prominent warnings - like cigarettes.

 

[Dotty]

This is exactly what Reza and Derek are trying to put a stop to with the petition that's being run by our friends on the gas engineers facebook forum Debs

 

[tamz]

I think if THEY can't stop parts being sold to the public then at least they could be sold with prominent warnings - like cigarettes.

Government make the right noises about gas safety but money comes first.

They now hide cigarettes up here. They sell them but are not allowed to display them.
I fancied a cigar the other week and asked the guy in Tesco's what cigars he had and he said he isn't allowed to tell me, i've got to ask for the brand!
I gave up and asked for 20 B&H which defeated the purpose!

 

[Masood]

Government make the right noises about gas safety but money comes first.

They now hide cigarettes up here. They sell them but are not allowed to display them.
I fancied a cigar the other week and asked the guy in Tesco's what cigars he had and he said he isn't allowed to tell me, i've got to ask for the brand!
I gave up and asked for 20 B&H which defeated the purpose!

That's insane! Even if he can't display them, he must be able to tell you what he stocks???

 

[Derek Hardman]

Reform Gas Safety in UK Petition
Stop sales of gas appliances to non gas safe registered businesses and people, this cost lives ? 38 Degrees

there you go, both petitions!

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Thank you for all the answers.
All that stuff about case seals and combustion chambers is way too complicated!
I have found a different answer:

Normal mortals like myself can't touch take the case off and touch the bits not meant for everyday use because it says so in the gas regs! Simple!
Reg 2.1
defines a boiler as an appliance.
and it defines an appliance as a gas fitting.
and it says "work" includes "

• installing or re-connecting the fitting
• (b) maintaining, servicing, permanently adjusting, disconnecting, repairing, altering......

etc etc...
Just left with the question of who is competent to work on a gas fitting as
per reg 3. 1.
So the Gas Regs essentially say the whole boiler is the gas fitting - not ust the gas bits.