Which boilers to use?

[Nostrum]

I've been out of the gas side of things for a while doing mostly doing contract work so now the time has come for me to earn a living by myself again, i'm wondering which boilers to spec for my own customers?

I like vaillants but i've heard their after care has gone a bit ropey and they are trying to pinch customers off the installers once the warranty is up !!

Worcester can kiss my hairy pair, hate them.

Viessmann have always looked good but i'm told getting parts for them can be a chore, anyone had issues with these?

Atag look awful which is a shame as although i've never fitted one i've only heard good things about them, any input?

Atmos look like they have a clever design but never even seen one!

Ideal, to be fair not a bad boiler but i'm after a higher end product.

My main concern is I am looking towards the highest efficiency appliances available with weather compensation etc to offer as part of a new venture i'm doing.

ATAG seem to fit the bill but I notice the 32kw model combi uses a lot of gas in HW mode (3.6m3/hr) which might mean upgrading on most systems?

Whats the ATAG priced like compared to a vaillant?

Cheers, Sam

 

[REDSAW]

whats the winning lottery numbers for saturday?

 

[dancinplumba]

mine !!

 

[Mike Jackson]

Atag are very competitively priced but don't use any more gas than any other combi with a comparable hot water output. The confusion comes from the way the models are designated, unlike boilers like Worcester where the 37 in 37Cdi is the hot water rating the 32 in the A325 is the CH rating and the hot water rating is 34.2. This is down to the way that the Dutch like to name their boilers.

 

[Nostrum]

Yes, this is why i'm thinking there may be issues with upgrading gas supplies and additional costs involved to the customer. I suppose you would hhave to assess each house on an individual basis but being competitively priced is counter acted if the supply is insufficient!

What are their controls like, are they user friendly? It's a shame they have designed it to look like a commodore 64 as the Vaillant is a nice looking piece of kit if it's hanging in the kitchen. What is ATAG's after care like, have you ever had to use it?

 

[Mike Jackson]

Atag don't have after care. If there is a fault with the boiler in warranty you go back and look at it on Atags behalf and bill them for your time and they supply the parts. If you get major problems Wayne Herbert, their technical guy, will come out to site and meet you.

It's worth getting on their A series and Q series training courses, it will teach you a lot about there boilers.

 

[Nostrum]

Now that I like the sound of!

 

[Leo21]

The after care from vaillant has always been top notch, specially iff your on the advanced scheme. As far as pinching customers they all write a letter offering a contract when the warranty,s out. Well baxi did when I used them anyway.

 

[Nostrum]

Just got a reply from ATAG, they offer free training on their products and lunch included, result. Shame it's a 350 mile round trip to the nearest centre, no such thing as a free lunch!

If you register with the advance scheme through vaillant, do you get a 5 year warranty on ecotec's or do you need to complete a course of some kind?

The new ecotec's looking pretty good, any word on price though?

 

[Leo21]

Think you do have to go on a course, three year on pro,s and five on plus.

 

[Nostrum]

That's annoying as ATAG offer a 5 year out the box, along with Ideal, Baxi, Worcester etc etc

If it's free fair enough, but from what I can see it's not..

 

[quality]

There is lots of people who hate Ideal, for a good reason i.e. 10 years sealing rubbish boilers but the Logic+ are a good boiler and easy to fit, also come with the 5 years warranty. I have fitted hundreds with very little bother I can count on one hand the issues which I have had and they were all sorted within 1 day of the call to Ideal

 

[Rickster123]

I agree with quality. Fitted loads of logics and had very little trouble. The only problem I can see with atag is trying to sell them to the customer. People don't like change and you'll find mose people still chirp on about Worcester and vaillant.

 

[Nostrum]

Yeah the logic is a good boiler and I would have no problem speccing it on your average install, but i'm after a premium product that the energy conscious might want to spend a little more for. The ATAG stated efficiencies are pretty impressive, and the controls look good. The vaillants also have excellent controls and interlinkable with all the technologies like solar etc.

What happens when ideal bring out a new boiler though..... let's hope they have learnt from their mistakes!

 

[bert large]

I have long been a Vaillant man but I am becoming a bit disillusioned by them. They have just introduced a new range which doesn't look any different to me & put up their prices by around 11% as they seem to every year.

They also continue to suffer from silly faults like the F75 fault (an erroneous reading by a sensor that is not required)

I hate Worcesters with a passion but all the public seem to know about them & trust them( I know different)
I am beginning to wonder if there are any good boilers any more. Never heard a bad word said about Logics but after the Response, Isar etc. I can't bring myself to fit one yet.
Even the trusty DuoTec seems to have gone downhill after the facelift

 

[Nostrum]

11% on an already expensive boiler sounds like a bad turn to me.

I won't fit Worcester if I can help it, if the customer won't have anything else then maybe but I can't look a customer in the eye and tell them that it's a good boiler when it's overpriced and poorly designed, you'd be better off with a logic.

I think ATAG are looking like a good product, just need to figure out some pricing. Anything I should know about them? Do they come with all the gear, bypass fill loop etc?

 

[grahamgas]

Bert
Have a serious look at the Atag.
get in touch with wayne and get on their training course. Well worth it.

Graham

 

[CES]

I think Ill be checking these out also. I'm a Vaillant man as well but getting a bit annoyed at their service dept deflecting blame and trying to steal customers.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

baxi duotec 1,heatmax,gold if you want a good,reliable,boiler spares are reasonable do not fit the MK2 GA versions though

 

[Nostrum]

Any views on the atmos? no diverter valve or pump for hot water sounds like a good idea. Think they lose out a bit in the efficiency though for some reason, although gain through no pump usage on hot water mode. Wonder if the pumps seize through the summer?

Not sure a duotec 1 is the premium product i'm looking for although used to fit loads a few years back and rarely had an problems, apart from loosing the tops of my fingers on the razor sharp casing that is!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

well if you want premium go for the platinum mk1,i work on boilers everyday of my career the plat/gold/duotec is easily on par with a valiant IMHO and better engineered to a greenstar

 

[grahamgas]

Atmos is basically same as the Intergas. Not fitted one....... yet

 

[Leo21]

The vaillant course is free. i dont understand why there not five years out of the box either. Round these here parts people only ask for vaillants and worcestors. And i hate worcestors.

 

[Leo21]

Fitted two Integas combi,s because customer insisted. Controls are bloody awfull and tiny, real job to explain to custard. It also looks like it was designed by a bloke in a shed, the pressure vessel is an after thought and its just badly thought out. is the atag like that?

 

[grahamgas]

When you first look at the atag, you think pretty much the same, admittedly not a boiler to blend in with the new 10 grand fitted kitchen, exp vessel on the a325ecx series, bolts on underneath, but when you get inside the boiler that is where it comes into its own.
Four year service stripdown in less than 4 minutes
Not bad ehh?