Why Is Water Flow So Reduced With Our New Shower Mixer??

[Associate]

Hi Everyone,

I've just Registered and am hoping you can help me urgently please!

I live in a three bedroom, three storey terraced house with a normal Gas Boiler system where the water is heated via a water tank. The Bathroom is on the top floor.

We’ve just changed our old Shower Mixer, as we’ve had it for many years, which used to have a good strong water flow without needing a Shower Pump. It was like this one:

[DLMURL]http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Produc...OWER+MIXER.htm[/DLMURL]


We’ve now changed it, and had a new Shower Mixer installed by a relative, who installed the original one and is good with general building work. However, the amount of water that comes out of the new Mixer is little and slow, almost in “drizzles”. You can barely wash your hands properly under the Mixer Tap let alone have a proper shower with the Shower Head!

The new Mixer was purchased by my Dad and our relative (Builder) from a new “designer” bathroom store, is Brand New, Galaxy make and cost £40.00. I can’t work out why the water output is like this with this one and nor can my relative.

I think it is similar to this particular Mixer:

[DLMURL]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRADITIONAL-BA...713.m153.l1262[/DLMURL]


1)Does anyone have any ideas why we are having this problem with the new Mixer?

2)Any suggestions on how to fix it please?

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Jay

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.moneysavingexpert.com%2Fnewreply.html%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D18209495"]

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[sonray ltd]

your on a gravity system and if your bathroom is on the top floor below the loft your hot water pressure will be no more than 0.3 bar.

the tap you have shown on ebay requires 1 bar min you won't get that on a gravity system unless you move your loft cws tank 10 metres up.

>who installed the original one and is good with general building work.
this will never class them as a plumber.

so unless you install a pump or raise the tank your never going to cure the problem.

change it for a low pressure one not high pressure.

 

[Associate]

your on a gravity system and if your bathroom is on the top floor below the loft your hot water pressure will be no more than 0.3 bar.

the tap you have shown on ebay requires 1 bar min you won't get that on a gravity system unless you move your loft cws tank 10 metres up.

>who installed the original one and is good with general building work.
this will never class them as a plumber.

so unless you install a pump or raise the tank your never going to cure the problem.

change it for a low pressure one not high pressure.

Thank you for your swift and helpful reply.

I hope you don't mind me putting you on the spot a bit......

Taking into account the information I have given you including the fact that the bathroom is on the top floor below the loft, and the fact that we have got quite a good efficient system that hasn't given us any recent problems:

1) What do you think the chances are of the new Mixer working with a Pump?

2) Can you recommend a particular pump please ie Specification: Bar, Make etc?

3) Can I get it for a cheaper price anywhere apart from Argos, B&Q, where the cheapest seems to be £99?

4)If I can get hold of a low pressure Shower Mixer, can you please kindly recommend a few quality ones that I can take a look at, that are generally known to work in a house like mine?

As I have a disabled mum at home, the least amount of inconvenience is desirable.

Thank you for your help!

Regards,

Jay

 

[sonray ltd]

1) What do you think the chances are of the new Mixer working with a Pump?

yes it will work on a mixer

2) Can you recommend a particular pump please ie Specification: Bar, Make etc?

i would probably go for a whole house pump ie salamander rhs pump.
which will supply all your taps etc.

if you wanted to pump just the supplies to just your new mixer then that would be alot more pipework.
another feed from the cws to pump
hot water feed from cylinder to pump.
then two feeds to the mixer.

if you use a whole house pump next to the cylinder then its just a new feed from the cws to pump and alter existing hot water pipe on the cylinder.

3) Can I get it for a cheaper price anywhere apart from Argos, B&Q, where the cheapest seems to be £99?

a decent pump is approx £200 up. salamander, stuart turner etc.

4)If I can get hold of a low pressure Shower Mixer, can you please kindly recommend a few quality ones that I can take a look at, that are generally known to work in a house like mine?

the choice is unlimited. aqualisa, bristan etc.
just search the net.
quarter turn taps mostly have ceramic disc cartridges which are mainly high pressure due to the small bore inside them 1 bar or above.

you need to keep to the lowest bar you can to work on gravity.

0.5 bar taps are about the limit on gravity but they won't be any good on a bath/shower mixer. as the shower head is higher giving less pressure.

personally saving the least agro and money i would change the taps for low pressure.
or change the mixer for taps only and install a shower (power shower)
be a lot cheaper than the pump route etc.

 

[Associate]

Thank you Sonray.

I will definitely consider the Power Shower option you suggested.

Just to make sure I cover all angles, I hope you can give me some more guidance please.


1) How do I find out what Bar my system is and the maximum Mixer/Tap Bar it can just about handle?


2) What Bar would you say this is, the kind that worked in my bath previously?:

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.argos.co.uk%2Fstatic%2FProduct%2FpartNumber%2F8320892%2FTrail%2Fsearchtext%253ESHOWER%2BMIXER.htm"]Buy Argos Value Essentials Range Bath and Shower Mixer. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for .[/DLMURL]


3) Taking into account what has worked well on my bath previously, if I had scope to take bit of a chance, out of the following which would you go for if you had to:


a) States is compatible with all plumbing systems:

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.argos.co.uk%2Fstatic%2FProduct%2FpartNumber%2F8320311%2FTrail%2Fsearchtext%253EBATH%2BTAP%2BMIXER.htm"]Buy Contemporary Chrome Lever Style Bath/Shower Mixer. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for .[/DLMURL]


OR



b) States minimum Operating Pressure Of 0.5 Bar for best performance:

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2FRIVA-BATH-SHOWER-MIXER-BATH-TAPS-BATHROOM-TAPS_W0QQitemZ300249725371QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_Bathroom_Taps_PP%3Fhash%3Ditem300249725371%26_trksid%3Dp3286.c0.m14%26_trkparms%3D72%253A1686%7C66%253A2%7C65%253A12%7C39%253A1%7C240%253A1318"]RIVA BATH SHOWER MIXER BATH TAPS BATHROOM TAPS on eBay, also, Taps, Bathroom, Home Garden (end time 08-Feb-09 10:53:33 GMT)[/DLMURL]



Thank you for your kind assistance.

Regards,

Jay

 

[sonray ltd]

1) How do I find out what Bar my system is and the maximum Mixer/Tap Bar it can just about handle?

your hot water cylinder is fed from the cws in the loft.
so you use the distance from the cws to the appliance you are using.

in your case your mixer. which is about 6ft from base of cws.
every metre is 0.1 bar you have 2m (6ft) thats 0.2 bar.

10m = 1bar.
0.2 bar taps will work perfect 0.5 bar is the max that i would use in your situation as the flow reduces so your bath takes longer to fill.
1 bar taps on gravity just don't work as you've seen.

2) What Bar would you say this is, the kind that worked in my bath previously?:

0.2 bar
ideal for low pressure and high pressure systems.
and those taps that you turn a few times to open and have a standard tap washer set up in them.



[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.argos.co.uk%2Fstatic%2FProduct%2FpartNumber%2F8320892%2FTrail%2Fsearchtext%253ESHOWER%2BMIXER.htm"][/URL]

3) Taking into account what has worked well on my bath previously, if I had scope to take bit of a chance, out of the following which would you go for if you had to:


a) States is compatible with all plumbing systems:

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.argos.co.uk%2Fstatic%2FProduct%2FpartNumber%2F8320311%2FTrail%2Fsearchtext%253EBATH%2BTAP%2BMIXER.htm"]Buy Contemporary Chrome Lever Style Bath/Shower Mixer. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for .[/DLMURL]

[/DLMURL]

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.argos.co.uk%2Fstatic%2FProduct%2FpartNumber%2F8320311%2FTrail%2Fsearchtext%253EBATH%2BTAP%2BMIXER.htm"]


OR



b) States minimum Operating Pressure Of 0.5 Bar for best performance:

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2FRIVA-BATH-SHOWER-MIXER-BATH-TAPS-BATHROOM-TAPS_W0QQitemZ300249725371QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_Bathroom_Taps_PP%3Fhash%3Ditem300249725371%26_trksid%3Dp3286.c0.m14%26_trkparms%3D72%253A1686%7C66%253A2%7C65%253A12%7C39%253A1%7C240%253A1318"]RIVA BATH SHOWER MIXER BATH TAPS BATHROOM TAPS on eBay, also, Taps, Bathroom, Home Garden (end time 08-Feb-09 10:53:33 GMT)[/DLMURL][/DLMURL]

first set for performance. as you want to use the shower
second set for looks.

but remember you want to use the shower that will only be approx 3ft from base of cws.
and the info some of these shops give you like argos is poor.
they say will work on all systems.
but like most taps that use ceramic discs (quarter turn)they restrict flow and work better on high pressure systems.

as for the others need 0.5 bar and are suitable for gravity systems yes they are if you want to wait for the bath to fill but the shower will be hopeless.

as for your disabled mum i would opt for a power shower that has a thermostatic control so she can not be burnt alive
and you can also have what is called a care power shower which is more suited to the disabled. we fit a lot for the elderly/disabled.

as for your mixer taps have no thermostatic control over the temp so are not ideal for disabled or elderly.
if the cold ever fails you will be fried alive.



Thank you for your kind assistance.

Regards,

Jay[/quote]

 

[Associate]

Hi Sonray Ltd,

I went to Argos today and ended up buying the type of Shower Mixer we originally had that worked well with our system:

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.argos.co.uk%2Fstatic%2FProduct%2FpartNumber%2F8320892%2FTrail%2Fsearchtext%253ESHOWER%2BMIXER.htm"]Buy Argos Value Essentials Range Bath and Shower Mixer. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for .[/DLMURL]

Unfortunately, My uncle, who is carrying out the work and my father went back to Argos and exchanged it, due to the fact that the round caps on the dial of these taps have a tendency of coming off, which was the case with our previous set. But obviously sometimes you have to make do and make the most of a bad situation, in our case if these were one of a few set of Mixers that will work well with our system, regardless of this common problem, so be it.

They exchanged it for this set without checking with me properly:

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.argos.co.uk%2Fstatic%2FProduct%2FpartNumber%2F8320311%2FTrail%2Fsearchtext%253ESHOWER%2BMIXER.htm"]Buy Contemporary Chrome Lever Style Bath/Shower Mixer. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for .[/DLMURL]

This consists of quarter turn ceramic discs, and I recall you mentioning how they restrict flow yesterday.

I'm pretty annoyed at this especially as I was able to benefit from your informed knowledge, but its a bit silly going back and forth to Argos and I don't know if I want to be blunt with them and say this set "just won't work!" My uncle is very good with the practical side of basic building and plumbing work, but isn't too knowledgeable when it comes to specific detail like this.

Please guide:

1) Aside from the Ceramic Discs, what Bar would you say this particular Mixer is?

2) If the Bar of this set wasn't a problem, due you think the impact of the Ceramic Discs on the water flow from the shower and taps will be significantly less than the original 0.2 Bar Mixers I bought?

3) If we keep this set, can you think of anyway around this, that won't require expenditure or lot of work, or would you say that its a waste of time putting on the new set because of the Ceramic Discs, and its best not to install it?


Thank you.

Kind regards,

Jay

 

[sonray ltd]

1) Aside from the Ceramic Discs, what Bar would you say this particular Mixer is?

with out seeing instructions or who make them etc hard to say
but useally the ones you buy from shops like argos etc are not branded names.

ideal standard do exact same design called ceraplan which only work on hp
and they do another set called certamix alto but they say will work on hp/lp
so its a bit of a gamble on ceramic disc taps unless the instructions say
but im thinking more on the shower side as that will be higher so less flow.

2) If the Bar of this set wasn't a problem, due you think the impact of the Ceramic Discs on the water flow from the shower and taps will be significantly less than the original 0.2 Bar Mixers I bought?

no not always some but rare ceramic disc taps are fine on lp but the dearer taps like grohe, aqualisa etc ceramic disc taps only work on hp.

3) If we keep this set, can you think of anyway around this, that won't require expenditure or lot of work, or would you say that its a waste of time putting on the new set because of the Ceramic Discs, and its best not to install it?

all i can say is try them on the pipework before tighening them all up etc.

them shops like argos never give enough info and the staff don't know.
in that situation your best asking in a back street plumbing shop they will be more helpful on what you want.

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Jay[/quote]