Would you have helped?

[secret squirrel]

Had a call from someone today.

"My husband has installed our new boiler and because he's not gas safe we need someone to do the paperwork"

Would you gas qualified people entertain this?

I wouldn't even pass this call on to someone else.

How can you be sure anything has been done correctly? where do you start the pricing? If you refuse to sign it off because its dangerous are you going to struggle getting your money? do you point out where he's gone wrong let him put it right then come back again.

I'm a little frustrated by this because time and time again, I've followed the debate between gas safe and plumbers discussing whether or not they can fix a boiler leaving the gas for someone else etc. Everyone has his/her view on the regulations. Yet people are doing it themselves.

I believe that you can't use powerflux on gas connections. Does the member of the public understand why you can't or even what powerflux is? If asked he'll deny using it!

So, who would have taken this on, what problems would you be looking for?

 

[stevetheplumber]

i just quote them from £400 upwards if its ok then its a nice easy day if its not you get paid for putting it right.At the end of the day its no different to doing a saftey check
never heard that you cant use powerflux on gas pipe work, anyone else ?what ever flux you use needs using sparringly and be wiped clean afterwards
If you accept that part of your job is safety then this is an appliance that definatly needs inspecting we're never going to stop diyers as long as wickes B&Q ETC keep supplying the boilers so better if its checked

 

[newbie1]

HUGE NO NO
it is contravening the regulations to sign off work you havnt completed yourself
if there is a problem down the line the engineer signing it off is the one who is liable
the husband concerned is unlikely to have had any gas training and even if he has would prob deny all knowledge of doing the gas work and blame the engineer concerned
i would actually report the person to gas safe as having approached me to sign off work i have not completed

 

[Bernie2]

I know its frightening to think, but so long as they are deemed competent and can prove it.
A person working in their own home doesn't have to be GaSafe registered to do work in their own home.

However if they know that, why are they asking a GaSafe installer to sign it off?

Do they want somebody to check their work just in case?

Which may mean they don't think they are competent.

Its a tremendous risk any installer takes if they sign off work uninspected.

Why don't they get GaSafe to inspect it and sign it off?

After all, as I have said, they are allowed to do work in their own home, so they have nothing to be scared of.

That is of course if they can prove competence and I suppose installing it to current regs would tend to prove competence.

It could be a bit dodgy.

 

[migoplumber]

squirrel, for me its a no no, and because i feel strongly about it i'd inform gas safe, let them take it where they want!
i would never sign off anybody elses work for less than 500k, if it went wrong afterwards, i would lose my right to work on gas and hence my income for the rest of my life. 400 quid would cover me for a week!

 

[Plucky]

Its a no no as far as I am concerned.

The trouble is there are so many plumbers in the yellow pages that they will just keep ringing until they get one to come and do it. And I can assure you, that someone will sign it off.

 

[Puddle]

It sure is a big no no
But just in case anyone reading this does want it done badly enough and is thinking of taking up Shaun's offer,I will do it for £480,000,for cash, no questions asked

 

[flat pack]

my offer is
460,000 but i want 49% of the company



but the bigger joke is when you look at home sellers hip
the electric /oil/ gas section remain blank ?

 

[stevetheplumber]

what your all saying is you dont feel confident in checking an instalation. if your called to a property without knowing who fitted the boiler to do a saftey check you as the last person to certify become the responsible person so wheres the difference
ive had to do loads of these where peoperties have been reposesed after the developers have gone to the wall quite often brand new boilers that havent been fired some not even filled

 

[Puddle]

what your all saying is you dont feel confident in checking an instalation. if your called to a property without knowing who fitted the boiler to do a saftey check you as the last person to certify become the responsible person so wheres the difference
ive had to do loads of these where peoperties have been reposesed after the developers have gone to the wall quite often brand new boilers that havent been fired some not even filled

No, we are saying we know the regulations
You can not register a boiler that you have not installed
You can do a gas safety inspection on anything that is a different matter
However even if property reposesed, the boilers should still be registered and if not you should assume that is because it was installed illegally
This should be noted on the gas safety inspection
If you feel the boiler or any gas appliance has been installed by an unqualified person, you could turn your back as long as all fitted Ok and pocket your £400 but what you should do is cap the appliance off, apply warning label and list id on warning notice you should be issuing !!

 

[newbie1]

what your all saying is you dont feel confident in checking an instalation. if your called to a property without knowing who fitted the boiler to do a saftey check you as the last person to certify become the responsible person so wheres the difference
ive had to do loads of these where peoperties have been reposesed after the developers have gone to the wall quite often brand new boilers that havent been fired some not even filled

safety check eg cp12 and signing off a boiler are 2 completely different things
by signing it off and registering the install you are saying you have completed the work
cp12 is confirming you have examined boiler for the purposes of a landlord safety cert
i certainly wouldnt go shouting about registering boilers you havnt installed as it is not acceptable by gas safe register
this is why there is illegal gas work all a fitter has to do is fit boiler then bung someone dodgy 100.00 to register it
rather kicks people in the teeth doing acs and paying 1000 every 5 yrs

 

[secret squirrel]

I have found all the responses on this thread very interesting and if I were Gas safe I wouldn't have done it.

Am I right in thinking that: as a 100% diyer with no formal training or qualifications (not wanting to start a side track here) I can go and buy a boiler, install it, connect it to the gas and off I go!

That seems like madness!

TO take it a stage further, lets presume that I have done the above and now want to rent the property out all I now need to do is get a gas safety check, (Unsure whats involved there) and it passes now its good to rent out?

 

[stevetheplumber]

No, we are saying we know the regulations
You can not register a boiler that you have not installed
You can do a gas safety inspection on anything that is a different matter
However even if property reposesed, the boilers should still be registered and if not you should assume that is because it was installed illegally
This should be noted on the gas safety inspection
If you feel the boiler or any gas appliance has been installed by an unqualified person, you could turn your back as long as all fitted Ok and pocket your £400 but what you should do is cap the appliance off, apply warning label and list id on warning notice you should be issuing !!

please dont shout at me

ok fine so i go to an unfinished building with 6 flats with a boiler in each issue noitices cap of supplies now what happens ?do you realy think the developer is going to throw six new boilers in the srap and ask me to start again?in most of these cases the previous developer has disapeared in a snow storm of ccjs so no one is ever going to be able to trace who fitted them its possible they were fitted by a resistered installer who is probably rueing the day he ever started the work
at the end of the day im willing to accept responsibility for anything ive inspected where do you draw the line i dont make the tube i fit but still sign of jobs where ive used it
when i used to do commercial works the pipe work to the boiler would often be welded by another company who wouldnt necessarily be corgi registerd as they were welders
or you might get pipework for a manifold which would come to site prefabed you fit and test and sign it of without knowing who has welded it
going back to my original question after ive capped of issued notices and labeled appliance reported it to gas safe what happens ?
answer to that is nothing so some one has to commision and test the appliance might as well be me

No, we are saying we know the regulations
You can not register a boiler that you have not installed
You can do a gas safety inspection on anything that is a different matter
However even if property reposesed, the boilers should still be registered and if not you should assume that is because it was installed illegally
This should be noted on the gas safety inspection
If you feel the boiler or any gas appliance has been installed by an unqualified person, you could turn your back as long as all fitted Ok and pocket your £400 but what you should do is cap the appliance off, apply warning label and list id on warning notice you should be issuing !!

on what grounds is it id ?

 

[Plouasne]

With regard to the replys to Steves posting, I think that common sense has gone out of the window here, because what you are implying is that the installation should be ripped out and started again from fresh with a new boiler etc

Looking at what could be called a safety report for a landlord, what would be the outcome if somebody had passed the work as being sound but unbeknown to the person who issued the OK, a corrosive flux had been used and six months later the gas supply started to leak, causing an explosion with the loss of life, going by your replies it is the person who issued the safety report, as being OK, who is at fault, and more than likely end up in prison

From where I am I can see no difference with what Steve is doing, apart from the fact that it is a new installation that has been left, the same could happen if the original installer had dropped down dead, somebody would have had to finish the job off

 

[migoplumber]

to throw another spanner in the works. if the boiler hasn't been commisioned correctly or otherwise in the first place, it should not be connected to the gas supply. regs state that any uncommisioned appliance should be disconnected from gas supply and appropriately labelled.

good discussion by the way.

 

[stevetheplumber]

With regard to the replys to Steves posting, I think that common sense has gone out of the window here, because what you are implying is that the installation should be ripped out and started again from fresh with a new boiler etc

Looking at what could be called a safety report for a landlord, what would be the outcome if somebody had passed the work as being sound but unbeknown to the person who issued the OK, a corrosive flux had been used and six months later the gas supply started to leak, causing an explosion with the loss of life, going by your replies it is the person who issued the safety report, as being OK, who is at fault, and more than likely end up in prison

From where I am I can see no difference with what Steve is doing, apart from the fact that it is a new installation that has been left, the same could happen if the original installer had dropped down dead, somebody would have had to finish the job off

thank you some common sense

 

[Puddle]

Did not know we were discussing common sense,thought discussion was about regulations
When I do a gas safety inspection,I do not write down,such and such is the regulation but common sense says it will be Ok.Common sense says do,nt worry about that although regulation say not acceptable or
Yes I know there was an explosion and your family are in hospital with third degree burns and should have pointed out the regulations and made appliance safe but common sense said not to worry
I point out any regulation disrepancies with the installation.
I get the old...Well its been like that for years,no problem...Must be right,it was installed by British Gas...What gives you the right to say its not right,its been checked three times before and passed Ok
I just say,it has nothing to do with me or what I personally think,I am carrying out a gas safety inspection of a installation in a dwelling,it is my job to make sure it is safe to the best of my ability and point out any defects that may be detrimental to the safety of the installation and bring to the attention of the responsible party any regulations that may not be met
If the regulations say before lighting a hob you have to stand in the middle of the kitchen with you finger up your bum singing god save the queen,thats what you have to do
Which leads on to previous posts

Property developers have to follow regulations like it or not and it is not up to them to scrap or not scrap six boilers that may be on the wall,they will not be asking you anything,you should be advising them what they can and can not do and if they go against your advise that will be supported by the regulations, they should be reported
And yes if there is no record of who has fitted the boilers and gas pipework,due to ccjs,property sold though auction ,language proplem or sudden amnesia,the lot officially should be ripped out and the powers that be will back you up

As far as accepting responsibility for works inspected,that is not the inspecting engineers shout,the regulations state what and what not will be the responsibility of the inspecting engineer and this myth that the inspecting engineer will become completly responsible for the whole installation is infact a myth
We are not responsible for the integrity of non visual parts of flues,the materials or joints used in hidden gas pipe runs,the right parts used in appliances ie gas valves,fan sizes,corroded internal copper pipe due to use of acid flux,any manufactorers recommendations
or
to the next point
If we are not aware,we are not responsible for appliances being installed by unqualified people,as long as installed correctly,we would state all safe and no liability of installation
However if we know installed illegally by unqualified person that is another matter and if a problem occurs,watch out,this installation should be Id
Why Immediately dangerous,strange qustion
If person not qualified,not one part of the installation may be done correctly,and the inspecting engineer has no way of checking everything is installed correctly,a soldered joint leaking,I know bit of super glue,flue to short,add a bit and cement it in,gas gasket broken,use a bit of wet carpet thread,have seen power packs on gas valve super glued to keep pilot on,it is reasonable to say a registered installer would not do above but un registered,do'nt say no way because have seen it
With regard question what if a registered installer had heart attack or could not finish works,of course you would not have to start from scratch ,you would just inspect what is done,make a note of work done and registered engineers details,as it would be allowable to persume works carried out to standards required
As to using items welded off site or manifolds made off site,these are treated the same as any fittings used,on larger works welders codings will be noted and spradic samples taken

A little foot note

One of the most important things a good plumber has is common sense,maybe we take it for granted but if you look around there is a shortage,lots of common stupidity

Steve I did not shout at you,Shouting is done in capitals
I just wanted to make a statement and the size type I used was the next size up
However maybe someone should shout at you before a gas safe inspector taps you on your shoulder and taking him for a £400 lunch is not going to help,were as,my round the world first class cruise with part of me £480,000,just might

 

[standard8]

To clarify, or more likley muddy the waters. The company I work for was recently asked to commision a gas boiler that had been installed by a company that has subsequently gone bust.
Discusion with Gas Safe, advice was in this instance you can do it, but, big but here. You Are Resonsible for everything that can be reasnobly checked. The two examples given were every possible bit of gas line should be inspected including lifting carpets and floors again (we had to dig up MDPE from adjacent buuilding), and the other was to strip apart the flue in it's entirity to ensure it was corectly fitted.
The customer was not happy but appriciated that his boiler would not go on without this and afterwards was grateful for our thouroughness. Didn't tell him it was to keep me out of nick!!

 

[david williams]

have absolutly nothing to do with this it will lead to tears

 

[jonathanb]

I wouldn't entertain any of this either, lot of cowboy customers out there all doing things their way - well let them get on with it, not be my name next to their handywork.

 

[copperspropper]

Re:all good

i thinck things are gettitting busy