1/2 inch lead off gas meter

[tamz]

Just their cya for the numb nuts.

Remember when worcesters had the do not connect to a 3 phase supply on the sticker on the boiler.
I always wondered if they had put that in because some eejit had actually done that :smile:

 

[lame plumber]

But 'if you see a defect you can't leave it' is wrong mate. That's exactly the reason NCS exists. You cannot apply the regulation retrospectively (with the exception of flues in voids it seems!) there is no requirement to change an NCS , only notify that it exists.

but if your installing a new boiler then ncs dont apply to the supply as mentioned, surely, you need to meet mfis and regs as extant.

 

[plumber0808]

now i have read this as 22mm to boiler 15mm lead to cooker? if its 15mm lead to boiler i can see why the lads are jumping down your neck can you clarify?

It is a 22mm pipe throughout with a small lead tail made off the meter onto the copper using a suitable fitting as a means of connecting the meter to the pipework.
No mb drop, correct pressure drop from meter to boiler, and no signs of damage.

i asked because I see it all the time and wondered if it was just good practice or is a requirement. I would not NTCS a lead tail IMO I wouldn't even note it.

 

[Ermintrude]

I can barely read it, is it a Baxi manual? I would boycott this boiler purely on the fact they are making their own rules up which as we know take preference. Fair enough though you've dug them out and they do appear to say 'pipe work minimum 22mm' (not their place to say IMO, Worcester changed this not long after I phoned them up and said their product was unusable on most LPG installations as it was uneconomic) can't make much else out though.

Baxi was easiest to find , first photo is of list of standards which installation must comply to , not have a list of ncs notices saying it doesn't.

Second is a section detailing that gas supply must be adequate (Baxi have now amended this) and that the boiler installation covers pipework from meter outlet to boiler inlet.

 

[Nostrum]

I suppose this is now turning into a different question of ' does an existing supply become a new supply when a new boiler is fitted onto it?' My interpretation of the regs would be no. The supply has to be suitable for the appliance which is being installed onto it. If it's not, then the supply should be renewed in part or full. These parts then come under new installation and would have to comply with current legislation.

 

[Nostrum]

Baxi was easiest to find , first photo is of list of standards which installation must comply to , not have a list of ncs notices saying it doesn't.

Second is a section detailing that gas supply must be adequate (Baxi have now amended this) and that the boiler installation covers pipework from meter outlet to boiler inlet.

Well if that's what they say then that's what is required, but that's is above and beyond in my opinion. What manual is it, I will look it up.

 

[Ermintrude]

Yeh think lead pipe bit went ages ago. I disagree. If it's to be suitable it needs to be upto current standards. Too tired to read GSIUR and standards. Isn't there a new acop out which may shed light on this tho!

 

[lame plumber]

Well if that's what they say then that's what is required, but that's is above and beyond in my opinion. What manual is it, I will look it up.

GAS SUPPLY:
• Boilers using NG must be connected to a
governed meter.
• LPG boilers must be connected to a
regulator.
• Installation and connection of the gas supply
to the boiler must be in accordance with
BS6891.
• Under no circumstances should the size of
the gas supply pipe be less than 22mm.
• The meter or regulator and pipework to the
meter must be checked, preferably by the gas
supplier, to ensure it is in good working order
and can meet the gas flow and pressure
requirements in addition to the demand from
any other appliance being served


greenstar manual: any good

 

[Ermintrude]

Duo tec 2 it's on web.

 

[Nostrum]

Something for tomorrow I guess. I would like to hear kirkgas's take on this also as he would be pretty up to speed on this I would imagine. Unfortunately as with all the regulations they are open to interpretation. Even words such as 'should' and 'must' can mean the complete opposite!

 

[Ermintrude]

What happened to reg man?

 

[tamz]

Shall and must are the only ones that count. The rest are recommendations but not mandatory..

 

[Nostrum]

The Installation and connection of the gas supply
to the boiler must be in accordance with
BS6891.

See again, my opinion is that they are referring to the installation of the boiler, and the connection to the gas supply, not the existing installation of the gas supply.

Otherwise you are effectively signing responsibility for the entire gas supply installation when you fit a new boiler. Something I would not be happy in doing unless it was entirely visible. And at what point does the gas supply become another appliances gas supply if there is another appliance fitted? The tee piece? What happens if on that tee piece it goes through a wall Un sleeved?

 

[lame plumber]

shall/must dont have any interpretations to my mind so must be in min 22mm pipe means min of 22mm fm boiler to meter or is it all becoming cloudy out there?

 

[Nostrum]

I would agree with that, but I disagree with them writing that in the first place. It's up to the installer to calculate the pipe size required. Particularly annoying when the same tat is written in the manual of a 12kw heat only boiler with a 22mm gas connection because it keeps manufacturing costs down.

 

[tamz]

I think they have changed the wording now saying 12 and 15kw can be 15mm on the ri's.

You can see their point tho. Half the guys out there think you can stick a 31kw vaillant or whatever on the end of a 40ft run of 15mm because it has a 15mm connection.
There are an awful lot of idiots out there who don't know the basics and need spoon fed.

 

[Killy Bing]

I think they have changed the wording now saying 12 and 15kw can be 15mm on the ri's.

You can see their point tho. Half the guys out there think you can stick a 31kw vaillant or whatever on the end of a 40ft run of 15mm because it has a 15mm connection.
There are an awful lot of idiots out there who don't know the basics and need spoon fed.

I think the best is a 15mm run going to a foot of 28 before the boiler.

 

[Hobo128]

Ok, Im coming to the end of installing a condensing boiler. The gas pipe is 22mm copper from the meter all the way to the boiler. The gas pipe pass's through a concrete slab from the gas meter but isn't sleeved. It is mechenically sound and is surrounded with expanding foam. Should I replace and sleeve it or am I just being lazy. I know it's ncs and it IS a massive ball ache to get under the subfloor to cut this section of pipe out to sleeve it.

 

[lame plumber]

Ok, Im coming to the end of installing a condensing boiler. The gas pipe is 22mm copper from the meter all the way to the boiler. The gas pipe pass's through a concrete slab from the gas meter but isn't sleeved. It is mechenically sound and is surrounded with expanding foam. Should I replace and sleeve it or am I just being lazy. I know it's ncs and it IS a massive ball ache to get under the subfloor to cut this section of pipe out to sleeve it.

you know the rules and its your name on any paperwork

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Ok, Im coming to the end of installing a condensing boiler. The gas pipe is 22mm copper from the meter all the way to the boiler. The gas pipe pass's through a concrete slab from the gas meter but isn't sleeved. It is mechenically sound and is surrounded with expanding foam. Should I replace and sleeve it or am I just being lazy. I know it's ncs and it IS a massive ball ache to get under the subfloor to cut this section of pipe out to sleeve it.

did you install it? if no then just issue advice notice

 

[Hobo128]

No, of course I didn't. I just picked up the gas pipe and connected it to the boiler.
Which I clipped adiquetly and sleeved.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

No, of course I didn't. I just picked up the gas pipe and connected it to the boiler.
Which I clipped adiquetly and sleeved.

Well then just issue ntcs

 

[aligorgon]

just to chime in - during my initial gas safe visit, i showed him a boiler i had installed a couple of weeks earlier... there was an unsleeved existing section of pipe going through a wall so I asked do i need to sleeve it.

the reply was no as its existing pipework.

 

[plumber0808]

Update. done the job changed the boiler.
changed the lead, it made no difference pressure wise but done now anyway.


I quoted a straight swap for a landlord, within a kitchen wall unit. The boiler was hanging below the unit so you could see about 8" of the boiler.


i decided to move the boiler up within the unit so it looks better and is out the way, done that bricked up old flue hole. Tenant tells me their radiator in the babies room does not work so I fitted a new trv for free as I have small children and felt sorry for them.


job done, took longer than it should as i done extra work for nowt and the bloody landlord has said they will pay me twice and made a lame excuse every time and failed to pay.


A stern phone call today and they tell me that they will pay today. I was close to going round and removing the boiler today due to non payment and to hell the consequences just to teach them a lesson.


I'm fed up with people thinking they can have a job done and try to evade paying.

 

[buckley plumb]

get the spray foam out if they don't pay