allowed drop when doing a tightness test...

[shorticus]

i agree 100% with your comment, and like other things in the regs, open to interpretation, which nobody cares about until there is a problem,
it is accepted by us all that a landlord MUST confirm the integrity of the gas carcass, how we confirm this should be easy to agree on as well ie a TT, however we seem to be getting caught up maybe not trying to be clever, but well i dont know what we are trying to do, but ultimately it needs to go to court to decide what is needed to confirm a gas carcass is sound, it would seem easier to use a test that is industry recognised as the bench mark but we seem to want to discuss it to death as it doesnt actually say TT in the regs, of those that dont do TT for LGSC how do you confirm it is safe? there are 2 points getting crossed over in these posts, the other being the need/desire to do a TT every time, as i have posted im not against it as long as the customer is made aware of the potential problems of finding a tiny leak, which with appliances connected is allowed to be left, i advise people to check with the customer BEFORE doing a TT that isnt mandatory purely to CYA if you find a tiny leak that requires a full re-pipe, because i know if you dont agree first and the customer finds out a TT isnt mandatory on a service then they will loan the face off you for costing then £100's, and we all know they will change their mind on the safety side of it when someone else tells them is wasnt mandatory

This thread and your comments Kirkgas have both been very helpful. I think if one was standing in the dock the prosecuter would be very interested if someone hadn't followed the recommendation, so although the regs don't say 'must' I reckon we all agree that it's still prudent to TT on a LGSC.
You make a good point on the servicing and the need/no need for TT the complete install and GSR state the same in one of their TBs. If the customer (when asked) reports no smell of gas then there is no need to TT, personally I still do, this has cost me greatly in time recently and it was a cost I was not comfortable to pass on to the customer in that particular instance. The main reason I'll continue to TT on servicing is ensure there is no letby on the ECV, I also use an electronic manometer and print out so I have a record of the snap shot in time...but then again I've always been a bit of a worrier

 

[tamz]

Kirk you are spot on with what you say and the reasons why.

I have just been playing a bit Devils Advocate here. Certainly got the conversation going and now some may know more than they did on Friday and some reasons behind it

 

[Bernie2]

Basically I suppose all you are doing is trying to find where the leak is?

Its been suggested that old appliances providing they are in well ventilated areas may have a very small allowable leak through wear. Personally I don't think they should.

The pipework should have no leak, basically it may be due to a failing joint that could pull apart at any time. I have seen joints on water mains just fluxed but they have held under pressure for months. Problem is move them and they leak a gas pipe has far less pressure so a fluxed joint may only show up with a very small drop.

 

[GQuigley67]

Basically I suppose all you are doing is trying to find where the leak is?

Its been suggested that old appliances providing they are in well ventilated areas may have a very small allowable leak through wear. Personally I don't think they should.

The pipework should have no leak, basically it may be due to a failing joint that could pull apart at any time. I have seen joints on water mains just fluxed but they have held under pressure for months. Problem is move them and they leak a gas pipe has far less pressure so a fluxed joint may only show up with a very small drop.

came across a 22mm gas pipe under the floors before and the straight coupling was just fluxed on, covered in green flux must of been like that for years maybe decades.

 

[stevetheplumber]

i had two socket formed couplings on a heating system that were fluxed and not soldered last 6 years before the showed as a brown mark on the ceiling

 

[fuzzy]

i went to an elbow on a heating system that must have been at least 10 years old, been fluxed but never soldered, i did a job on the rad valve and moved it when it started leaking

 

[plumbster3456]

Basically I suppose all you are doing is trying to find where the leak is?

Its been suggested that old appliances providing they are in well ventilated areas may have a very small allowable leak through wear. Personally I don't think they should.

The pipework should have no leak, basically it may be due to a failing joint that could pull apart at any time. I have seen joints on water mains just fluxed but they have held under pressure for months. Problem is move them and they leak a gas pipe has far less pressure so a fluxed joint may only show up with a very small drop.

seen fitting hold with flux under gravity pressure but never directly on the mains.
sometimes you pressurise up a combi heating system and no leaks but then you run heat5ing and with the heat it leaks so i suppose it happens crazy how it holds though

 

[kirkgas]

now we have moved onto dodgy fittings we have found, however lets not forget these have been found after a leak was identified these would NOT have been found on the previous TT's unless we were really doing our job and carrying out a full visual inspection as well, but thats another 4 page post haha

 

[tamz]

now we have moved onto dodgy fittings we have found, however lets not forget these have been found after a leak was identified these would NOT have been found on the previous TT's unless we were really doing our job and carrying out a full visual inspection as well, but thats another 4 page post haha

Wee true story

Dad (also a plumber btw) built a house in 1971. One night about 10 years later i come in half (full) canned about 2 in the morning and can smell gas. Have a sniff about and decide it is coming from under the kitchen floor. So using all the logic of at least 15 Volare and buckfast i roll the carpet up, go out to the van and get a hammer and bolster and a saw and start lifting the floor. Old man comes down the stairs like a raging bull, whit the fk are you doing?
You've got a gas leak.....SLAP get to bed..........
MA he's gassing ye, she's up.........SLAP get to bed.....so i retreated to my boudoir.

Up in the morning.....well about half 11 to a big fry up breakfast and praises from my ma. Seems my dad was an eejit and had never soldered it but it held a test and was fine for about 10 years

Gas is a low pressure of 20 odd mb. It doesn't take a lot of holding so always check as far as you can see

 

[shorticus]

Wee true story

Dad (also a plumber btw) built a house in 1971. One night about 10 years later i come in half (full) canned about 2 in the morning and can smell gas. Have a sniff about and decide it is coming from under the kitchen floor. So using all the logic of at least 15 Volare and buckfast i roll the carpet up, go out to the van and get a hammer and bolster and a saw and start lifting the floor. Old man comes down the stairs like a raging bull, whit the fk are you doing?
You've got a gas leak.....SLAP get to bed..........
MA he's gassing ye, she's up.........SLAP get to bed.....so i retreated to my boudoir.

Up in the morning.....well about half 11 to a big fry up breakfast and praises from my ma. Seems my dad was an eejit and had never soldered it but it held a test and was fine for about 10 years

Gas is a low pressure of 20 odd mb. It doesn't take a lot of holding so always check as far as you can see

Buckfast! good grief, you Scots baffle me lol

 

[tamz]

It tastes like cats pysh. Never drunk it for about 30 years. Tasted better mixed with Volare (cheap red wine) but got you off your nut quick.
They sell it by the half gill (about 70mil in new money) in a lot of pubs from Salsburgh (look that place up on google earth but don't drive through it unless you are in a Saracen The original 1 horse town) to Glasgow.

Still enjoyed by the young ones who think they are doing something new

 

[shorticus]

saw a program on tv about it, apparently it's made by monks and has huge amounts of caffiene in it as well as being pretty strong, I'd have probably tried it in my youth but I think I'd pass these days, getting a bit fragile in my old age

 

[tamz]

It is indeed made by monks from a place in Devon?? called Buckfast Abbey. About 15% but when you tan 3 bottles or so it is lethal. Also known as "wreck the hoose juice"
Just try it for the experience It is (was) a good dunt. Put it in the fridge first

Canny believe i'm encouraging Buckfast

 

[Reg Man]

I love the literary scotts accent. I finished for tonight. Going up the apple & pears for a Bo peep.

 

[tamz]

So am i. Got the Santa duties tomorrow for the weans and an early night for a 3am rise.


Still got the vat to finish too..................easily distracted

 

[tamz]

I love the literary scotts accent. I finished for tonight. Going up the apple & pears for a Bo peep.

It comes out after i have a few halfs. No work tomorrow. Tools packed away until the 6th

 

[gbgas001]

Hmmm..Ok so youve found a leak "within limits" on a gas carcass conected to a boiler, the boiler has an iso valve on it, where does it then say that you Have to then isolate the apliance and test again?. ( I will always Isolate first afetr finding a drop btw) Iam genuinly just interested.

It doesnt say to do that anywhere... but how many of you would leave a 2mb drop anyway... i certainly couldnt, sphinkter reverberation syndrome always makes me find the drop. So the regulations have you captured into doing it safely

gb-gas

 

[shorticus]

Canny believe i'm encouraging Buckfast

Niethier can I, you're a bad man Tamz! lol

P.S. Might have to give it go sometime now ha ha )

 

[GQuigley67]

buckfasts disgustin!!! used to drink it all the time, still do occasionally but don't enjoy the taste whatsover

as for the streotype that buckfast makes you go nuts i disagree, give me sum vodka and i go nuts...not buckfast

 

[kirkgas]

i live in Coatbridge which has/had the uneviable title as being the town which consumed most buckfast per head of population in the whole of Britain, and i might add someone is drinking mine as i have NEVER let one drop pass my lips, there are a load of pubs up here which have it on the optics as well, ii am sick of the sight of seeing the smashed green glass every where, i wish they would sell it in plastic bottles to save on the mess and damage when someone gets skelped over the head by a bottle as well

 

[GQuigley67]

i live in Coatbridge which has/had the uneviable title as being the town which consumed most buckfast per head of population in the whole of Britain, and i might add someone is drinking mine as i have NEVER let one drop pass my lips, there are a load of pubs up here which have it on the optics as well, ii am sick of the sight of seeing the smashed green glass every where, i wish they would sell it in plastic bottles to save on the mess and damage when someone gets skelped over the head by a bottle as well

i agree about the plastic bottles, should sell plastic tumblers etc in the pubs also seen so much damage with glass.

So what is the conclusion on this thread then ? is it that the regs say you don't need to trace out a drop as long as its within the limits and theres no smell of gas ? but your recommended to do so to cover your own bum ?

 

[kirkgas]

i agree about the plastic bottles, should sell plastic tumblers etc in the pubs also seen so much damage with glass.

So what is the conclusion on this thread then ? is it that the regs say you don't need to trace out a drop as long as its within the limits and theres no smell of gas ? but your recommended to do so to cover your own bum ?

yes on a private job, personally i say you have to do TT on LGSC to cover landlords legal responsibility via you

 

[shorticus]

yes on a private job, personally i say you have to do TT on LGSC to cover landlords legal responsibility via you

Kirkgas, at the risk of milking this to cheese you would say not to do a full TT on a service though? I'm perhaps re-thinking my approach that's why I'm asking..

 

[GQuigley67]

but i think the initial point of the post was(had to read it again) is that the engineer said it was ok to have a 4mb drop on the old pipework even with the appliances isolated..thats definetely a no no then isnt it

 

[kirkgas]

Kirkgas, at the risk of milking this to cheese you would say not to do a full TT on a service though? I'm perhaps re-thinking my approach that's why I'm asking..

i dont do a TT unless it is mandatory, or discussed before hand with the customer fully aware of the potential invoice, you either do what i do and comply fully with the regs, or you go the whole hog and TT with appliances connected, then isolated then either repair the leak or cap the gas, you cant stop somewhere in the middle, it isnt for me to decide i will do more work than the law says and therefore cost a client £100's, and i will say that if someone else did it and i was asked about it i would def tell the client that the work (although done with the best intentions) was nnot necessary and the customer has been left without gas and/or a large invoice,