Anyone supply an idiots guide to DIY powerflushing

[horseunderwater]

Having been refused BG cover on CH system due to excessive iron oxide sludge, we were told £680 to get a powerflush by BG which we got told was a lifetime guaranteed one.
Hubby who is not a plumber, but has done various re plumbing on our system over the years and according to the gas engineer that we had out, had done an excellent job, has found that you can hire one of these flushers and operate this yourself.
So our big question is - does anyone on here have an idiots guide to operating one of these things if we go and hire one for a weekend? Or would it be better to try a chemical flush first? Money is very tight at the moment, so we need cheapest reliable method. Ideally I wish I could afford to have a magnaclean thing fitted.
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[buckley plumb]

look at toms top tips he has a video where he mains pressure cleans a system after britsh gas hve done it and fitted magna clean and he still gets dirt out

 

[TonyDIY]

You also need a very high flow rate to move the sludge as it's metal, mains pressure flushing is subject to the pressure you have and it does not do the boiler very well. Using a professional with a good power flush machine does not compare to any other shortcut you find online.

 

[Heating-eng]

You also need a very high flow rate to move the sludge as it's metal, mains pressure flushing is subject to the pressure you have and it does not do the boiler very well. Using a professional with a good power flush machine does not compare to any other shortcut you find online.

Totally agree

 

[worzel]

You also need a very high flow rate to move the sludge as it's metal, mains pressure flushing is subject to the pressure you have and it does not do the boiler very well. Using a professional with a good power flush machine does not compare to any other shortcut you find online.

Why is that? Mains pressure is typically higher than the pressure a power flusher produces. So if you've used the same chemicals, and can reverse the direction of flushing, what difference is there between mains flushing and using a power flusher other than with mains your constantly discarding the dirty water and replacing with clean while the power flusher is relying on magnets to get the sludge out of the water before putting it back in the system?

 

[GQuigley67]

powerflusher generates a better flow rate than mains pressure typically at about 50L a minute, its the flow rate that makes the difference not the pressure

 

[RoryD]

Well first of all,do you need a power flush,believe BG and everything requires power flushing,there is a thread on here
What is the problem with the heating
Is it a sealed system or open vented

puddle you're digging out BG engineers again! BG don't do that at all and BG do not refuse ANYONE a contract on the grounds they have sludge, quite the contrary. I as an engineer would point the issues out, because that's best advice, which I'd hope everyone would give. This contract would be refused due to a safety issue or a poor access / install issue. There's always an underlying thread of nastiness against BG engineers who tower over the vast majority of petty snipers . You're a moderator mate and generally do a fine job but you're letting your guard down

 

[Steveo]

puddle you're digging out BG engineers again! BG don't do that at all and BG do not refuse ANYONE a contract on the grounds they have sludge, quite the contrary. I as an engineer would point the issues out, because that's best advice, which I'd hope everyone would give. This contract would be refused due to a safety issue or a poor access / install issue. There's always an underlying thread of nastiness against BG engineers who tower over the vast majority of petty snipers . You're a moderator mate and generally do a fine job but you're letting your guard down

Sorry but have to disagree here as the last few customers I have done CH work for all have said that they were refused a BG contract as they would not have their power flush done at an extra cost of £680-£800. Plus if they had the PF done by another company then it was still a no go. Its not the BG engineers who are at fault it's BG's policy that is being questioned here.

 

[petercj]

HSS hire out Pro Flush machines for £77.45, less £20 online booking discount, plus VAT.

An instruction leaflet comes with the machine, but manufacturer's instructions here:-

[DLMURL]http://proflush.co.uk/images/uploads/Proflush_Professional_Operating_Instructions.pdf[/DLMURL]

It's easy enough to do, being a boring and monotonous job, but if it saves paying BG that kind of money, then relish the saving.

If you have a vented system with a small water tank in the loft, make sure the vent pipe is capped, and the tank feed is plugged, otherwise you could end up with a very wet loft and soggy ceilings. Also, make sure he cleans the tank out well - I take it you will be supervising the work ;-)

But before you hire the machine I suggest you fire up your heating, get your radiators really hot, and feel for evenness of temperature across the front panels, particularly top to bottom. If there is no great difference top to bottom, ie. not much colder lower down, and no general cold spots, then a mains flush may be enough.

Either way you'll need some of this:-

Just been using it myself and it seems as good as the more expensive big brands...

http://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/no-nonsense-central-heating-inhibitor-cleaner-2-x-500ml/82140

BTW, Help-link are cheaper than BG for full system cover, and they will actually service your boiler, whereas BG just do an annual gas check

Central Heating & Boiler Breakdown Cover | Help-Link

 

[PlumbBobBob]

good advise there petercj

 

[rayplumber]

powerflushing against mains cold
powerflushing has a better flow rate
powerflushing does not dilute the chemicals this is most important maybee the first rad will be ok with mains but after that all your cleaner will be washed out

 

[JAH HEATING]

Whats peoples views on using Magnacleans device ?

 

[AWheating]

Whats peoples views on using Magnacleans device ?

very good when using alongside a powerflush machine, not so good on its own. the kamco one its better because its a window into the system ie. its transparent.

 

[quality]

Readers Digest cracking info

 

[Heating-eng]

Not great, they are made from adey so they tend to leak.

 

[Avatar]

The first thing BG tell everyone is that they need a power flush - £700!

9 times out of 10 it does not solve the problem . .. .

Its a bit of of plumbing myth that has built up all kinds of weird ideas about

 

[ringi]

I have just done a poweflush this weekend, a few tips on what I picked up on my first time.
I found DIY power flush sealed system and DIY power flushing guide for open vented central heating system very useful along with the instructions on the Kamco website.

I did a weekend hire of the power flush unit so I could spend the Friday night working out what all the controls etc did. I put X400 into the system a few weeks before; as I did not wish to use a powerful acid that risked damaging the boiler if I got it wrong.

I considered doing a few compete drain downs and refills instead, however we have lots of radiators on drops that don’t have drain point, so a power flusher seem the better option. I did not do a “main flush” as that would have put more pressure on the pipe work and with old paperwork mostly hidden in the loft ….

 

[b.lynch plum]

Always add cleaner in the towle rail and and use main water works for me

 

[AWheating]

most people untill they use a powerflush machine correctly tend to believe that a chemical clean with mains water is just as good. Most change there mind very quickly tho......

i drained a heating system recently which run clear on a chemical flush, i still got a number of kg's of black sludge off my magnetic filter attached to my powerflush machine, that was just what the filter caught the rest went down the drain.

 

[ringi]

most people untill they use a powerflush machine correctly tend to believe that a chemical clean with mains water is just as good. Most change there mind very quickly tho......

i drained a heating system recently which run clear on a chemical flush, i still got a number of kg's of black sludge off my magnetic filter attached to my powerflush machine, that was just what the filter caught the rest went down the drain.

I used a power flush machine as the cost of hiring one was low enough that there was not a good reason to do otherwise.

However at the end of the day if a little black sludge is left that is well stack to a radiator and is not blocking the radiator, then removing it does not have that much benefit.

I can’t think of a case when it would be a good option to have a new boiler installed these days without putting a filter on the system. Therefore I think a “main flush” that runs clear after having the chemicals in the system for a long time is good enough.

 

[petercj]

I used a power flush machine as the cost of hiring one was low enough that there was not a good reason to do otherwise.

However at the end of the day if a little black sludge is left that is well stack to a radiator and is not blocking the radiator, then removing it does not have that much benefit.

I can’t think of a case when it would be a good option to have a new boiler installed these days without putting a filter on the system. Therefore I think a “main flush” that runs clear after having the chemicals in the system for a long time is good enough.

The turbulence created by reversing flow with a power flush machine will stir up any settled debris in radiators in a way that a mains flush won't do. Running clear doesn't mean the rads are cleared of all debris/magnetite.

I think it makes good sense to fit a filter to a system after cleaning, even if the boiler is not new.

None of the filters on the market are 100% efficient, and if the system is very dirty some magnetite will pass through the filter, plus, on most filters, once the filter chamber is full the flow will by-pass the filtering chamber.

I recently used a cheaper cleaning chemical sold by Screwfix, and found the result disappointing, better to pay the extra and use one of the main brands imo.

BG do refuse to take systems on Homecare cover if the system is dirty. In my area they charge £599 for power flushing, and if you have the power flush done by them they will include the water in the HC cover. If you have the system cleaned by someone else the system water is excluded from the HC cover, i.e. they won't check and top it up, etc.

It will come as no surprise if some BG engineers on here say they do different, but the above is the way the BG contract works.

 

[AWheating]

I used a power flush machine as the cost of hiring one was low enough that there was not a good reason to do otherwise.

However at the end of the day if a little black sludge is left that is well stack to a radiator and is not blocking the radiator, then removing it does not have that much benefit.

I can’t think of a case when it would be a good option to have a new boiler installed these days without putting a filter on the system. Therefore I think a “main flush” that runs clear after having the chemicals in the system for a long time is good enough.

leaving sludge in a system is not correct, the boiler manufacutrer requires you to fit the appliance to a clean system which has been flushed to the BS. Using a powerflush machine is the best way to do this on most old systems. Yes you can mains flush to meet the BS but that does not mean leaving sludge in the system. Removing as much sludge as possible will increase the efficiency of the radiators and life of the new boiler and whole system. A magnetic filter will only pickup so much, a years average amount of corrosion in a fairly clean system. if the boiler fails during warrantee your going to struggle to get it repaired by the manufacturer.

i cant see a reason not to powerflush a sludged up system if possible and customer will pay for it.

ive seen a magnaclean full after an hour or two on a boiler change which was only chemicaly flushed, a powerflush was suggested but not done as far as i know.

 

[petercj]

Fitting a filter will also show up how efficient the cleaning has been.

 

[AWheating]

very true, how many people have fitted filters because they are unsure the system has been cleaned well enough rather than as a precautionary measure for future corrosion problems.

 

[petercj]

very true, how many people have fitted filters because they are unsure the system has been cleaned well enough rather than as a precautionary measure for future corrosion problems.

If the customer drains the filter and finds a load of black gunge they're probably going to doubt the value of the cleaning, even if the residue is the product of many hours of filtering.

 

[mohvalery]

Any one would like help over the phone on how to use the power flush pump, flush the system with main water, or looking for some one experienced with very reasonable prices ( London and surrounding only) please get in touch.
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