ASHP or MAINS GAS?

[Steve Williams]

Hi and thanks for reading my query

I am renovating an terraced Edwardian house which will be well insulated. The gas boiler is old and the entire Central Heating system is a mix of ugly rads, normal piping and microbore, in short it needs replacing.
I will be fitting UFH regardless of the ASHP/Gas question as I prefer it and the floor boards need lifting and insulation installed anyway.
We have a mains gas supply.
Is an Air Source Heat Pump a better choice than gas?

Steve

 

[tamz]

More expensive to run than mains gas

 

[Howsie]

Sad but true.

 

[Roger Welton]

Mains gas, cheaper to run, cheaper appliance cost. Win win

 

[Steve Williams]

Thanks guys, 3-0 then! Does the Renewable Heat Incentive/Green Deal and rising gas prices make any difference to the view its better to stick with gas?

 

[TBServices]

It's a sham, you'll probably never see any reward from it like many people who have fitted solar pv

 

[michael c]

have a look on here steve there are a few people complaining the ashp isnt sufficient at certain times of the year

 

[eaton]

I can run ashp cheaper than gas, I know this as I've done it, install cost is quite a bit more yes but with grants rhi etc will be well worth it, I'm travelling to gloucestor soon to do just this. House banked with pv too

 

[CES]

At the moment mains gas is cheaper but that will change in the years to come. ASHP's if installed correctly work very well, more efficiently than any boiler.
If they didn't work why would Worcester, Glowworm, Vaillant etc all have their own versions?
You have to be able to distinguish between fact and fiction, speak to people who fit them, ask to see one working, verify with the occupiers that everything is ok.
I'm not sure if the RHI will be available for houses connected to the gas network, lots of mixed messages out there so I wouldn't bank on that to offset any costs. The installation cost is greater but in the longer term it has its benefits, no need for flueing, no CO risk, servicing is minimal etc.

 

[Ray Stafford]

The trouble is, there are so many variables. Its impossible to give a certain answer.

What will the cost of gas be in years to come?
What will the cost of electricity be in the years to come?
Is the system design right for optimising ASHP in this specific property?
What will government policy be on RHI next year, in 5 years time and in 10 years time?
How long will you live in the property?
What other energy efficiency measures could you have taken with this investment?

You only have to move each assumption by a relatively small amount, and you can "prove" whatever you like.

 

[eaton]

Heard a rumour people on gas will get rhi but at reduced rate

 

[tamz]

I'm going back to an open fire and buying a chainsaw :smile:

 

[hammers4spanner]

i keep hearing ashp can be quite noisey

 

[eaton]

I've done a couple of vids here's one

Samsung heat pump - YouTube

 

[Howsie]

They can be quite noisy, of that there is no doubt. They should be place out of the way if at all possible.

 

[eaton]

Who's are noisy? I've fitted a few now and best so far are Samsung followed by hitachi

 

[Howsie]

They all are if the customers expectations aren't set right. The move a lot of air and this constant'ish noise can be intrusive.

 

[radswilldo]

I can run ashp cheaper than gas, I know this as I've done it, install cost is quite a bit more yes but with grants rhi etc will be well worth it, I'm travelling to gloucestor soon to do just this. House banked with pv too

With out being rude Eaton, can you tell me how? I have spoken to Grant, Nu-heat, Vaillant, Worcester etc and none of them advise taking anyone off grid, in fact they are against it. NO manufacturer and no mathematics back up your statement. I did log on to start a thread about who is a actually taking customers of the grid for ASHP, as since Christmas I have had four phone calls from customers regarding this. ASHP is not going to touch a low modulating condensing boiler with modulating control. Do any manufacturers post on here?

 

[eaton]

I've specced one against ng and for a 4 bed house. It will run at roughly £60 less than ng.

 

[eaton]

I'd still not advise it though without rhi confirmation as install is likely to be treble and payback time will be quite long

 

[Reg Man]

On a personal view point. I have Daikin Altherma ASHP in an older not brilliantly insulated house and in comparison to my old house which was smaller and very well insultated, up to current insulation standards with mains gas condensing boiler, my fuel bills are cheaper now with the ASHP and all electric. I run the electric on an economy 18, so cheaper night tariff but also cheaper daytime tariff for the ASHP. I am considering putting 16 PV panels on the roof.

I agree that they are noisier, but not any different to an air con unit. So wont be great for everyone. My ASHP is fine as I do not have any nieghbouring houses close by and I can't even hear it when indoors.

 

[eaton]

That's great to hear. Issue with tarriffs is I think a lot of the energy companies are becoming aware. I'd heard economy 10 was the best for heat pumps but not many offer it. Ill have to look at 18 as I'd not heard of that

 

[Reg Man]

I am nt sure if economy 18 is available anymore. I managed to get it, but don't think the suppliers are to keen to give it out. Probably because the day time stored heat for the ASHP cheap rate which is only 1p per kW/hr than the night time rate.

 

[eaton]

You saying you get daytime rate at 1pkw? If so that's amazing

 

[Reg Man]

You saying you get daytime rate at 1pkw? If so that's amazing

No! 1p more than the night time rate. Night time rate 6p day time stored rate 7p.